Summoners have actually ruined this game's PvP

I don't know about you guys but I have no problem locking people down without Night Wing. I don't get why it is such mandatory when you can just Surecast it, or just Aetherial Away and the Sleep. I've win almost 40% on my BLM when I'm bored that is without ANY morale gear and PvP skill. And the reason I lose is cause I get eaten up too damn quick.

Dependency on Night Wing is bad and you don't use it for opener since it is 20s only. If it was 30s then I'd reconsider. I've seen countless BLMs who can't Sleep when being trained by 2 people when they don't have Quick cast or Nightwing.

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Originally Posted by LongNu

This is my major gripe. We all know the class is overpowered, but now it's just ruining the game's variety. No composition is complete without a Summoner.

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SMNs are outshining most jobs, I agree. You can deal with 1 if it's premade vs premade though, especially if you have a BLM. 2 SMNs though, just afk and wait to click leave.

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Originally Posted by Nachie

SMNs are outshining most jobs, you can deal with 1 if it's premade vs premade, especially if you have a BLM. 2 SMNs though, just afk and wait to click leave.

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And... why do majority teams have to have one Summoner on their team? Why can't I encounter a team without this class in 50 PvP? Why should I gimp my own team by not bringing a Summoner? I wish I was exaggerating when I said 9/10 teams roll at least one Summoner. I honestly wish I was.

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

I don't know about you guys but I have no problem locking people down without Night Wing. I don't get why it is such mandatory when you can just Surecast it, or just Aetherial Away and the Sleep. I've win almost 40% on my BLM when I'm bored that is without ANY morale gear and PvP skill. And the reason I lose is cause I get eaten up too damn quick.

Dependency on Night Wing is bad and you don't use it for opener since it is 20s only. If it was 30s then I'd reconsider. I've seen countless BLMs who can't Sleep when being trained by 2 people when they don't have Surecast or Nightwing.

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It's mandatory because it's a 20 second sleep that's INSTANT (surecast don't mean squat when the buff comes off at the start of a cast, ie you can CC off the buff) and aoe?

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Originally Posted by LongNu

And... why do majority teams have to have one Summoner on their team? Why can't I encounter a team without this class in 50 PvP? Why should I gimp my own team by not bringing a Summoner? I wish I was exaggerating when I said 9/10 teams roll at least one Summoner. I honestly wish I was.

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You are missing the point, do you even read or just complain. Because I think I agree with you on my post yet you are still trying to justify your claims. I was just saying you can deal with 1 SMN, not completely counter it with a BLM. And just to make it clear for you, YES! SMNs are way above and beyond every other jobs atm.

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Originally Posted by Nachie

You are missing the point, do you even read or just complain. Because I think I agree with you on my post yet you are still trying to justify your claims. YES, SMNs are way above and beyond every other jobs atm.

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Justify what? If PvP is going to be this way for a while month, then think about what organized teams would be at the end of this month.

SMN/SMN
SMN/BLM
SMN/BRD

These 3 (which all happen to have a SMN) will dominate any other team in organized play. Any player worth their salt would know why. Even if there are other teams using MNK or DRG, they're far better off using a SMN for their 2nd DPS spot. If things are to get 'competitive', then people will naturally want the best advantage they can get. In this case it happens to be said class. It will be so fun seeing all the different compositions that of course, include a Summoner. This isn't flustering to see ONE CLASS in every single team? And how long do we have to deal with this dominance?

@Quackley

Cause you don't pay attention to what others do. The only person with reliable stun in most comp is MRD/WAR brutal swing once it is down surecast and Sleep him. IT's not rocket science. And for good measures, Aetherial Manipulate to your healer then surecast if you are not confident.

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

I don't know about you guys but I have no problem locking people down without Night Wing. I don't get why it is such mandatory when you can just Surecast it, or just Aetherial Away and the Sleep. I've win almost 40% on my BLM when I'm bored that is without ANY morale gear and PvP skill. And the reason I lose is cause I get eaten up too damn quick.

Dependency on Night Wing is bad and you don't use it for opener since it is 20s only. If it was 30s then I'd reconsider. I've seen countless BLMs who can't Sleep when being trained by 2 people when they don't have Quick cast or Nightwing.

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just saying its not mandatory is enough...please im trying to be 100% nice when i say this but stop embarrassing yourself on this forumn

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

@Quackley

Cause you don't pay attention to what others do. The only person with reliable stun in most comp is MRD/WAR brutal swing once it is down surecast and Sleep him. IT's not rocket science. And for good measures, Aetherial Manipulate to your healer then surecast if you are not confident.

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I don't pay attention because I realize that a 20 second instant aoe sleep is incredibly good and worth the points?
oky doky m8, if you say so.

You're wrong, and your posts display that you don't really understand, but whatever floats your boat. :/

Red in less than a day. ;)

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Originally Posted by LongNu

Says the one who can't even respect an opinion. Got rather insulting there quickly, didn't you? Take a chill pill and quit being so defensive.

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Wasn't really an insult, just saying what I see. After 3 posts of me saying I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU, you are still trying to argue with me, how is that not respecting your opinion? And i'm quite chill, your stupidity is just on a-whole-nother level so I wanted to point it out. And not sure what i'm being defensive about either l0l.

When I see a 1 SMN team, I know it's going to be a much harder match than against any comp without one. When I see a 2 SMN team, I want to throw my keyboard against the wall.

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Originally Posted by Nachie

Not sure if stupid or stupid. Wtf are you trying to tell me, I already said I agree with SMNs being "OP." You keep repeating the same shit over and over again. I'll end it here because apparently you can't read or have the comprehension level of a 1st grader.

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Lol, this confuses me, read through it and I'm not sure why you became defensive. Not like Longnu was complaining or disagreeing with you, merely discussing.

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Originally Posted by Nachie

Wasn't really an insult, just saying what I see. After 3 posts of me saying I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU, you are still trying to argue with me, how is that not respecting your opinion? And i'm quite chill, your stupidity is just on a-whole-nother level so I wanted to point it out.

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This post--V

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Originally Posted by LongNu

And... why do majority teams have to have one Summoner on their team? Why can't I encounter a team without this class in 50 PvP? Why should I gimp my own team by not bringing a Summoner? I wish I was exaggerating when I said 9/10 teams roll at least one Summoner. I honestly wish I was.

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Was never meant to be an argument. It was meant to carry on conversation of this thread. (Which it did) It wasn't even meant to be personal, but you took it that way anyway.

Relax.

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Originally Posted by Nachie

Wasn't really an insult, just saying what I see. After 3 posts of me saying I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU, you are still trying to argue with me, how is that not respecting your opinion? And i'm quite chill, your stupidity is just on a-whole-nother level so I wanted to point it out.

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Shouldn't be talking about others' reading comprehension when you're bad at it. Just sayin'

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

When I see a 1 SMN team, I know it's going to be a much harder match than against any comp without one. When I see a 2 SMN team, I want to throw my keyboard against the wall.

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This. Perfectly summarizes my last three days.

If you'd think spending 9 points on Night Wing just to make it worth it go ahead. Without the CD reduction it is a 1 off thing, without the 20 seconds extension it is useless in itself. Even in the best case scenario you spend 6 points without the CD reduction it is still too expensive and not game changing enough. Perhaps your reaction time or thought is so slow you need it as a handicap its like saying PoM poly is the only way to go instead of finding opportunities to poly.

Stupid if you asking if you claim yourself as a Gladiator in WoW really...

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Originally Posted by Retinolx

Shouldn't be talking about others' reading comprehension when you're bad at it. Just sayin'

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I'm bad at it how? I can come out of nowhere and say you're retarded too.

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

Stupid if you asking if you claim yourself as a Gladiator in WoW really...

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I must of misread this thread...who claimed to be glads in wow? plus isnt everyone a MULTI GLAD rank 1 10 times. Server first blah blah blah. lol Everyone claims they are glads just accept them for who they are. Im done responding though this has gotten silly.

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Originally Posted by LongNu

This post--V


Was never meant to be an argument. It was meant to carry on conversation of this thread. (Which it did) It wasn't even meant to be personal, but you took it that way anyway.

Relax.

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There was nothing in that post that was meant to "carry on conversation." You reiterated what you said in your first post. And what's with the personal and defensive comments? Those don't even make any sense. I don't play a SMN, so it's not personal, how am I being defensive when i'm not trying to defend anything other than agreeing with what you said? If anything, i'm insulting your intelligence or lack thereof.

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

<stuff>

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Games RARELY go long, especially with the way damage/summoners are.
6 points for a free extra sleep, even if it's only 20 seconds, is amazing.

Please tell me you're not saying PoM is a handicap, rather than an incredibly good talent.
Instant CCs are gamechanging, whether it's in WoW or this game.

Were you actually a mage that didn't take PoM?
Because if so, that's hilarious and I'm not sure you went very far in WoW.

I never claimed to be a gladiator (I was when I played, just gotta throw that out there to flex my e-peen :3), but I would hope any player, good or bad, could realize the strength of Nightwing.
I guess I was wrong.

PoM is a good talent but using it for Poly is silly. Since Poly has such a quick cast. Its the same deal here, I'm talking about needing an instant Sleep is not needed. You don't need Nightwing when you are good at using Aetherial Manipulation + Surecast. You're just feeding subpar play and too much dependence. I haven't even mention using Mana Wall and Mana Ward too.

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

PoM is a good talent but using it for Poly is silly. Since Poly has such a quick cast. Its the same deal here, I'm talking about needing an instant Sleep is not needed. You don't need Nightwing when you are good at using Aetherial Manipulation + Surecast. You're just feeding subpar play and too much dependence. I haven't even mention using Mana Wall and Mana Ward too.

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Subpar?
Being able to pop an instant CC during a kill window is far, far better than trying to hardcast a sleep, even if it's only 20 seconds.

That alone is reason to take it.

The exact same way PoM was best used.
For a PoM poly or PoM RoF to wreck the healer.

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

PoM is a good talent but using it for Poly is silly. Since Poly has such a quick cast. Its the same deal here, I'm talking about needing an instant Sleep is not needed. You don't need Nightwing when you are good at using Aetherial Manipulation + Surecast. You're just feeding subpar play and too much dependence. I haven't even mention using Mana Wall and Mana Ward too.

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Say you are about to land a kill on a target. Swiftcast is down. healer isnt sleeping but is about to cast lustrate or benediction. Your saying you are going to hard cast sleep over an instant sleep? Wierd

@DJ

If you play a BLM long enough your first priority sleep is the Healer then followed by everyone else you will have the healer on Focus and in safe LoS. You always precast your sleep on the healer and when the enemy is about to drop you let it go, cause they will most definitely break out of it. It is really that simple.

@Quackley

I agree PoM RoF is ok because RoF has a long cast time but Poly is 1.5 and GCD is 1.5 there is no reason to do it you benefit nothing doing that. Sides during RoF time PoM poly was non existant. People PoM RoF to a hard DF CC.

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Originally Posted by Djlovedrop

Say you are about to land a kill on a target. Swiftcast is down. healer isnt sleeping but is about to cast lustrate or benediction. Your saying you are going to hard cast sleep over an instant sleep? Wierd

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2.5>0, therefor 2.5s cast is better than 0s cast, didn't you know?

I play with some blm and we never sleep healer first...Little thing we like to call switching in the pvp community. Focus healer sleep dps make him use his purify then bam sleep switch kill simple. I dont know why people think sleeping healers in the beginning is good...well of course against people who dont know how to play defensive it works i guess.

This thread is pretty entertaining, keep it going!

I just don't understand man.
There's quite a few ways to stop a casted sleep, by any member of a team.

There's so many situations in which Nightwing is incredibly beneficial, more than what you would gain from spending it elsewhere. :/

@Nachi

Even if I'm forced to take Nightwing I will only use it for the 3rd sleep nothing earlier. Pre-cast is your friend people seriously.... Most of the time when healer is being slept they will target you. Pre-casting Sleep allows you to deter him from purifying it, if he does it is a risk he takes.

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Originally Posted by neminis

This thread is pretty entertaining, keep it going!

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That's my job. ;)

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

@Nachi

Even if I'm forced to take Nightwing I will only use it for the 3rd sleep nothing earlier. Pre-cast is your friend people seriously.... Most of the time when healer is being slept they will target you. Pre-casting Sleep allows you to deter him from purifying it, if he does it is a risk he takes.

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Yeah because the other team will just ignore you and let you sit there to spam sleep right?

You'd really think I don't target swap? I won't be Rank 30 solo if I hadn't an ounce of quick wit to swap, which I agree that a lot of people do not have. Target swapping causes a shock effect for healers, making them dump lustrate or blow purify.

Reason why you train a DPS first. DPS tunnel visions a lot not noticing their HP most of the time. Healers are very conscious of their own HP, only when a teammate is taking major damage do they start to lose attention on their HP which is the best time to swap back to healer DPS until he is conscious of his HP loss then stun him.

Cant wait till you hit the 50 bracket and two melee just run through your sleep and CC you to death...Really sleeping as blm only works if you have a great healer because 9/10 times you will be focused first get 1 sleep off then be killed if you have no night wing. Night wing is awesome if your team is on point you can insta sleep healer 2x with it and swift cast for an easy kill on 1 dps.

http://i.imgur.com/ASMHfBI.gif

@Nachie

Just shut up.

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Originally Posted by AldricBranchais

http://i.imgur.com/ASMHfBI.gif

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Where do you find these gifs? Srsly...

I can take bugs, and imbalances, because those can be fixed. What annoys me the most is the AFK bots. Those ruin PvP for everyone they end up getting matched with.

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Originally Posted by LongNu

Where do you find these gifs? Srsly...

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http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh...verfo1_400.gif

<3

I have a collection in my Imgur folder.

INTERESTING SOMEWHAT ON TOPIC QUESTION:

I read somewhere that unaspected damage was not affected by morale, which adds up to summoners being dumber than they should be, outside of disease debuff being what it is, of course.

Confirm/deny? Testing evidence?

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Originally Posted by Fricket

INTERESTING SOMEWHAT ON TOPIC QUESTION:

I read somewhere that unaspected damage was not affected by morale, which adds up to summoners being dumber than they should be, outside of disease debuff being what it is, of course.

Confirm/deny? Testing evidence?

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Would be great to test if we could have some sort of... dueling.