How To Fix Summoners

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xxalucard

- Lowering Miasma's initial cure-debuff & heavy duration
- Making enkindle single target only
- Lowering the Pet's HP (maybe by 25%) to make it more viable to kill
- Not allowing a SMN to SWIFTCAST resurrection (but DO ALLOW a slow-cast resurrection)
- Change Miasma II to only heavy people, not cure-debuff them too.
.

---

dont worry these will fix the burst damage!

I think a lot of people build opinions and judgement about pvp simply too early. It's like how people absolutely flip out about sleep/blms when you first begin pvp, but the smn threat becomes clear with experience.

I've played with DJ, who is rank 30, and we actually openly laugh on voice chat whenever we see his damage, it's not even something that can be possibly competed with. No class comes even close.

Me and my friends are all getting into the 1000 (let alone his 2000) match range, when you get that kind of experience you really see what classes are capable of, smn most of all. (cutoff by 1000 letters)

Is DJ hitting those hard Crits against ppl in PvE gear? Or is that damage done as an ilvl 90 pvp vs ilvl 70 pvp players?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sentry

Checked my recent battle logs and found a 1520 non crit enkindle and a 1.5k fester, both from DJ, not going to screenshot and post them because I'm lazy, but he's defenitely hitting that hard.

---

Aika Snow is full ilvl 70 pvp gear and hitting that hard. Summoners who say its impossible either hiding this fact or just never seen the numbers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rawkzor

No, you are just undergeared for PvP.

---

If you have ilvl 90 pvp gear already going up against a team with ilvl 55 gear of course you'll be overpowered the problem in pvp right now is not overpowered classes but geared teams facing undergeared teams

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

If you have ilvl 90 pvp gear already going up against a team with ilvl 55 gear of course you'll be overpowered the problem in pvp right now is not overpowered classes but geared teams facing undergeared teams

---

No, the problem is SMN damage. The head developer has deemed it so. Your argument is invalid.

Ok this thread is way over exaggerated lol. Maybe smn does a lot of damage but if he is in i90 then his numbers should be taken with a grain of salt LOL. 2.4k crit enkindle is just wtf. Full i90 pvp smn vs lvl 45 af gear might give you that damage but every other class can do that too with that gear difference.

Yes smn needs nerfed because not many can deal with it properly but the numbers in this thread are BS high because of his gear and lack of details on the opponents lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Djlovedrop

i have 100 more int and 144 more morale. Anyways its pointless talking to people that dont want the nerf lol.

---

And are you playing against people with the same stats?

Most of the people I find in pvp matches might be lucky to have half a set of i70 morale gear. Hell more of them are playing wearing nothing but their i90 pve gear.

This isn't a matter of enkindle needing to be nerfed, it's morale system needing to be adjusted to face the fact that without a matchmaking system the damage dealt with high morale and the mitigation lost with low morale leads to amounts of damage that people then blame on an "OP" class. The only reason summoner stands out is because it has the kind of burst damage that best stands out.

The morale system is the problem, the power of enkindle is just an end result. If you don't solve the underlying problem then after you've nerfed one ability people will just complain about the next one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Djlovedrop

dont worry these will fix the burst damage!

---

Take off your i90 pvp gear and it'll fix your burst damage. Solved your problem without ruining a class.

Kobe!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xxalucard

Also to the OP: Funny how you play 2,000 matches yet still claim the impossible. A summoner cannot kill anyone in 1-2 seconds.

- Pretty sure any DPS that uses all it's burst CD's and crits the majority of their attacks can kill someone in around 15 seconds of uninterrupted/unhealed damage.


*shakes head at community*

---

Lol at all the summoners that can't admit their class is OP. DJ was one of the first summoners to hit rank 30 and has more experience in PvP then anyone here. I have seen with my very own eyes DJ kill a healer in about literally 5 seconds MAX. and then have seen him wipe out everyone else after. Obviously he was overexagrating on the 2 seconds. When an experienced skilled summoner admits the truth everyone just brands him a troll or traitor. Lmao, ok guys

EDIT: To the guys saying he's only capable of that kind of damage due to his i90 pvp gear. I've seen him play pre rank 30 a ton of times and do rediculous amounts of damage. There's a reason you guys are getting nerfed
ITT: Nothing but terrible players with little pvp experience talking like they know everything. zZZz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sentry

I've seen DJ kill people in 3 blows before, so 2k+ is quite possible,.

---

TY another experienced PvPer vouching^

Very few players are ranked 30 and full ilvl 90 pvp gear and it's rare to find Summoner's that are as well. Most likely DJ is with a geared premade team facing random pugs that are below ranked 10 and barely geared so that is why he is hitting that insane damage. If DJ was to face other ranked 30 and geared teams his damage would be drastically reduced. His raging strike and energy drain combo would hit for 480 crit damage and Rouse Spur and Enkindle would be hitting 880 crit damage. With the morale system it is too early to tell which class is overpowered because there isn't a large sample of people who are ranked 30 with ilvl 90 pvp gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Most likely DJ is with a geared premade team facing random pugs that are below ranked 10 and barely geared so that is why he is hitting that insane damage. If DJ was to face other ranked 30 and geared teams his damage would be drastically reduced. His raging strike and energy drain combo would hit for 480 crit damage and Rouse Spur and Enkindle would be hitting 880 crit damage. With the morale system it is too early to tell which class is overpowered because there isn't a large sample of people who are ranked 30 with ilvl 90 pvp gear.

---

1. After rank 30 I have been solo queing over premade 3s and people in my data center can back that up.

2. I have done way more then 800 enkindle on a full ilvl 90 target.

3. I have crit 1100 energy drain against a full ilvl 70 pvp geared.

I am done responding to you after this post. Every post you have made on this thread has shown that you are just trying to avoid the nerf. have a good day and happy new years

Obviously Djlovedrop is the problem not the class :P~ I would love to see a Dj vs Akiza duel but you know that is impossible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dsingh

Obviously Djlovedrop is the problem not the class :P~ I would love to see a Dj vs Akiza duel but you know that is impossible.

---

Im going to break my #1 rule and talk "smack". This wouldnt even be a challange even if I put on my ilvl 70 gear. He is saying summoners are weak once when gear is including that his festers are only hitting for 440 and enkindle is only hitting 880. Either just an annoying troll or an untalented player. Done with akiza and his annoying posts

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rawkzor

No, you are just undergeared for PvP.

---

So people want class balance, but level one player who are playing against people who have thousands of wins are ok? I don't understand what people are asking for in terms of balance.

Can people just explain to me where they think balance is going to come from? I'm really curious. You can be level one and fight someone with thousands of matches played. The whole idea of this pvp is supposed to be a free for all. They even say it as you go to the wolves den. Yet people always want to ask for balance. I don't see anything in this current system that leads me to believe that balance was ever intended.

Can confirm dj lovedrop solo queue, big damage, bill cosby sound effects.

@Akiza, any good summoner can take someone full to dead in a global or two if left to properly setup their burst. Good players won't let this happen easily but it never ceases to amaze me how many players don't adapt strategies to prevent the instant blow up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deca

Can confirm dj lovedrop solo queue, big damage, bill cosby sound effects.

@Akiza, any good summoner can take someone full to dead in a global or two if left to properly setup their burst. Good players won't let this happen easily but it never ceases to amaze me how many players don't adapt strategies to prevent the instant blow up.

---

Any good team can keep a good Summoner in a 3v1 situation and kill them before they set up. If you let a Summoner get set up which takes 7.5s just like a Black Mage they will kill your entire team in a global or two. Teams that don't use strategy and attack whoever deserve to have there entire team killed by a Summoner in 10s.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Any good team can keep a good Summoner in a 3v1 situation and kill them before they set up. If you let a Summoner get set up which takes 7.5s just like a Black Mage they will kill your entire team in a global or two. Teams that don't use strategy and attack whoever deserve to have there entire team killed by a Summoner in 10s.

---

If you find yourself getting 3v1'd for 10 sec at the start of a match you are on the bad team, that shouldn't even be possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Djlovedrop

Im going to break my #1 rule and talk "smack". This wouldnt even be a challange even if I put on my ilvl 70 gear. He is saying summoners are weak once when gear is including that his festers are only hitting for 440 and enkindle is only hitting 880. Either just an annoying troll or an untalented player. Done with akiza and his annoying posts

---

Instead of talking smack why not just record a video? Watching how someone plays is one of the easiest ways to tell how skilled they are.

Playing 2000 matches is technically more "pvp experience" but it doesn't mean "better player." You can't level down and the matchmaking system is random-- especially when you solo queue and are playing disorganized teams while in full pvp gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xxalucard

Instead of talking smack why not just record a video? Watching how someone plays is one of the easiest ways to tell how skilled they are.

Playing 2000 matches is technically more "pvp experience" but it doesn't mean "better player." You can't level down and the matchmaking system is random-- especially when you solo queue and are playing disorganized teams while in full pvp gear.

---

Already making a video that I announced on why our class is broken. Stay tuned friend.

Also I usually face 3s in solo que with randoms and carry then no problem. Once again, ask people in my data center. I dont come on forumns make something up hype myself up to look good. I started this thread with an opinion and facts that showed they needed nerf. People kept chipping away that you cant crit 2400 and its impossible for almost 2 pages of this thread got tired and waited for my next high crit which was 2500. Now people want videos which i was already making...Dont worry ill stream again soon!

After these last two matches I'm afraid I might make the dj lovedrop massacre highlight reel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deca

After these last two matches I'm afraid I might make the dj lovedrop massacre highlight reel.

---

I already have the videos I just suck at making them so friend is doing it for me. Right now im just taking screen shots of the next 5 matches to show what each game is like... but im afraid someone will say numbers mean nothing something something something...

These were pvp matches 5 solo que (cept 2 cause ques slowed down so i grped with turtle love for faster ques)

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/...psdc7d3a37.png

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5f12d5a1.png

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9b123116.png

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/...ps457f3dc5.png

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/...ps31961e19.png

Interesting how low the damage is from the summoners on the other team.

I'll wait for the video. Though the screenshots you posted yourself pretty much prove either:

1) it takes a good player to do as much damage
2) you are way better geared than them
3) they are some sort of disorganized mess with a horrible healer
4) people on the other team (and/or your team) are terrible, especially the dps


there are 1000 variables in every pvp match that can affect the DPS output, namely player skill & gear.

I mean look at your second-to-last screenshot, you have a monk on your team that only did 1k damage...the SUMMONER (overpowered class) on the other team only did 2k damage....

in one of the first screenshots, the drg on your team only did 468 damage...total... and died 4 times. you were the only dps alive the majority of the match, so wouldn't you expect to do nearly all of it? you also don't show how long that match was, which i assume was fairly long with all the deaths and ressing going on. I mean, for someone who kills people in 2 seconds, you'd think there wouldn't be enough time for 3+ resses.

Think im done talking on this thread. People just make new room for holes to find ways to keep summoners overpowered or whatever the cause this forumn was to give my opinion and facts behind it. People questioned the fact that i did a 2400 enkindle crit. Said it was impossible and im lieing. Then i post an enkindle crit of 2517 or something then people went another route. Im done posting on this thread its just full of trolls lol

While I agree summoner burst is insane, so is the burst of bards (x2) when synced right.

Currently I am getting quite used to summoners if you preemptively begin to esuna when dots are being applied.

My only other issue is the stacking disease healing reduction with warriors healing reduction. A 300 cure 2 is pitiful and then on top of that you can't cast while being hit makes that utterly painful. You either use your purify to get rid of all of those debuffs (assuming you can't esuna or leeches due to possibly 10 debuffs on you at that time) or need to save benediction for that point.

Also, the other silly thing is double Heavy. I've used stone 1 on someone when they were Diseased from a summoner ally. The weight effect even stacks. This should be fixed also.

Thats my thoughts x.x

Those are my thoughts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Djlovedrop

Think im done talking on this thread. People just make new room for holes to find ways to keep summoners overpowered or whatever the cause this forumn was to give my opinion and facts behind it. People questioned the fact that i did a 2400 enkindle crit. Said it was impossible and im lieing. Then i post an enkindle crit of 2517 or something then people went another route. Im done posting on this thread its just full of trolls lol

---

This kind of thing happens in PvP in every game.
People will defend what they play, no matter what's wrong with it.

To be fair, with no ranking system/matchmaking, screenshots can only show so much (mostly that you do a ton of damage compared to everybody else).
That said, it's really not hard to figure out summoners are over the top at the moment, but you know, that'd mean admitting it. :l

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Djlovedrop

Think im done talking on this thread. People just make new room for holes to find ways to keep summoners overpowered or whatever the cause this forumn was to give my opinion and facts behind it. People questioned the fact that i did a 2400 enkindle crit. Said it was impossible and im lieing. Then i post an enkindle crit of 2517 or something then people went another route. Im done posting on this thread its just full of trolls lol

---

If you look at the other teams Summoner's your doing in average 5.3x the damage they are. That means either you are a ranked 30 Player with ilvl 70 gear going up against low rank under geared teams or a horrible pug these number do not suggest the Summoner is overpowered it suggest DJ Lovedrop a fully ilvl 70 PvP geared Summoner is going up against under geared players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quackley

This kind of thing happens in PvP in every game.
People will defend what they play, no matter what's wrong with it.

To be fair, with no ranking system/matchmaking, screenshots can only show so much (mostly that you do a ton of damage compared to everybody else).
That said, it's really not hard to figure out summoners are over the top at the moment, but you know, that'd mean admitting it. :l

---

Quackley you must not have looked at the other Summoner's damage DJ was doing 5.3x the damage they were doing and the other Summoner's were averaging around 3,728.33 damage DJ was averaging 19,760.667 damage so with that how can you say Summoner is over powered when the average Summoner is getting around 4,000 damage at the most. Summoners's aren't over powered there are just high ranked ilvl 70 pvp Summoners facing other teams that are low ranked and still in pve gear with no morale.

What I've noticed/needs to be done
-Sleep Duration 15s
-SMR Dots-fester (Do you know how hard it is to spam leeches? How about an AoE esuna or leeches with a long cooldown...?
-BLM 40second sleep spam (I'm sorry but purify isn't going to cut it)
-Stun on holy needs to be removed imo(Its an aoe and does redic dmg anyways)
-Whm with sleep, sch's with....wait sch's don't get sleep right...
-Benediction vs Lustrate (Lustrate=You better not get CC'd, benediction = no worries about CC's)
-Why do bards suck in pvp? common throw bards a bone, I get disappointed when I get double bard parties. cause we lose 90% of the time.
-Rank 30 over powered over geared over everything versus rank 1-12 players with 1-2 maybe 3 pieces of ilvl70 gear......
Thats like telling a dog to go fight a lion, its just not feasible. The gear needs to be gimped for the average of both party's. JUST SAYIN

Anyways thats my 2 cents

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Preservation

What I've noticed/needs to be done
-Rank 30 over powered over geared over everything versus rank 1-12 players with 1-2 maybe 3 pieces of ilvl70 gear......
Thats like telling a dog to go fight a lion, its just not feasible. The gear needs to be gimped for the average of both party's. JUST SAYIN

---

Yes, summoners do need to be toned down, quite a bit. Yes, Dj is obviously a beast with summoner, especially compared to the smn's in the pics posted. But, I don't feel that PvP gear needs to be toned down. That is the whole point of grinding it out, and rushing to get the best rank and gear. If you where to nerf the high lvl PvP gear, just to give noobs a "Balanced/ Fair" chance, then we all may as well just vote for the socialist, and let the Commies take over. You balance the classes, i.e, Melee DPS with Melee. You don't do it by bringing down those that put the time in, to get the gear, to the lvl of those that have not.

I am only Rank 22. If i where to go against a full Rank 30 team on my data center, my team would get crushed. No if, ands, or buts about it. And you know what, I am perfectly fine with it. When I get to Rank 30, I will expect the same. Why should a rank 30 player/ team be penalized because they are good?

On a side note, if ppl want fair and balanced gear, just que up in lvl 30 or 40 pvp. Morale plays no part in those tiers.

SMN is strong there is no doubt about that, only a full CD MRD can hope to achieve their level of Burst. Problem with MRD is target has to stay in place whereas SMN's target don't and MRD has less Off GCD attacks than a SMN which is the main shock effect of burst. MRD's only shock damage would be Full Swing but it is normally applied first, and Mythril Tempest knocks people back and is used more of a in between skill once you get 4 seconds stun upgraded which you only most of the time benefit the 2 seconds stun during a burst rotation.

Heck even a Garuda egi with Rouse and Spur is enough to smack a Bard hard enough he'd go out of LoS cause we're talking almost 1k Wind Blade crits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

yadda yadda yadda

---

You must not have read this part:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quackley

To be fair, with no ranking system/matchmaking, screenshots can only show so much (mostly that you do a ton of damage compared to everybody else).
That said, it's really not hard to figure out summoners are over the top at the moment, but you know, that'd mean admitting it. :l

---

You know, the part where I said screenshots don't say that much, because there's tons of variables in play in a random match.

I'm just gonna say it.
The people defending Summoners and thinking they're not over the top, I don't think they really understand/do PvP very well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quackley

You must not have read this part:


You know, the part where I said screenshots don't say that much, because there's tons of variables in play in a random match.

I'm just gonna say it.
The people defending Summoners and thinking they're not over the top, I don't think they really understand/do PvP very well.

---

People defending Summoner's understand pvp it's people calling Summoner's overpowered. Summoners are comparable to Black Mages in damage assuming they have the same gear. The only way for Square to balance out pvp the way people want us to equalize the gear

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

People defending Summoner's understand pvp it's people calling Summoner's overpowered. Summoners are comparable to Black Mages in damage assuming they have the same gear. The only way for Square to balance out pvp the way people want us to equalize the gear

---

If you're letting a blackmage get enough damage off to keep up with a summoner, that says enough.

At one point you compared summoner damage to a BLM spamming Flare.
Heck, mentioning ANYTHING about "spamming" flare says more than enough.

I hate to break it to you, but you're just missing something here.
That or you're "trolling" I guess.

I think they should remove smn and sch from the game. problem solved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Djlovedrop

Think im done talking on this thread. People just make new room for holes to find ways to keep summoners overpowered or whatever the cause this forumn was to give my opinion and facts behind it. People questioned the fact that i did a 2400 enkindle crit. Said it was impossible and im lieing. Then i post an enkindle crit of 2517 or something then people went another route. Im done posting on this thread its just full of trolls lol

---

Ok dude. I'd be done too if I didn't see there were 1000 variables to what I'm saying.

I don't want any class to be overpowered, it's just your specific ideas (totally remove enkindle) are dumb.

You're way overgeared than most people, not playing organized teams, and obviously out damaging other summoners-- the overpowered class, mind you-- by at least 3x their damage.

I didn't realize that having all i90 pvp gear vs people with no pvp gear and the right circumstances could amount to a 2.5k enkindle. I foolishly thought you'd only do tests in balanced settings (against friends with the same amount of morale as you).

I'm sure if a blm in full i90 pvp gear crit a flare on someone that has NO pvp gear, and who just popped blood for blood and had his stoneskin/protect removed, the flare would crit for over 3k. Does that mean flare is overpowered?

You have no controlled settings whatsoever. YOLO queue in full pvp gear with a friend or two isn't scientific proof that enkindle needs to be removed. If you want to nerf miasma or reduce the pet's HP or reduce it's auto attack damage, I'd be fine with that. You can't reduce enkindle without reducing flare or other huge burst skills though. I mean it's once every 5 minutes, and it's not even that much of a burst (against people in the same gear).

A video of you being super-overpowered against an organized team in full i90 pvp gear would have no "holes" anyone could work around. Proof is proof man. You just don't have any.

I wish SE wasn't so bloody lazy, I can tell SMN is going to be ruined PVE wise once this next update is out, time to roll as a different class I suppose!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Djlovedrop

These were pvp matches 5 solo que (cept 2 cause ques slowed down so i grped with turtle love for faster ques)

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/...psdc7d3a37.png

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5f12d5a1.png

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9b123116.png

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/...ps457f3dc5.png

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/...ps31961e19.png

---

How in gods name are you doing so much damage?!?! I've never been able to get that high before jeez

like maraudens damage is any worse.. i have full lvl 70 pvp gear and still i eat those 1.8k marauden attacks... summoners just have only really good uptime all of the time , once u get rank 30 its like free win no matter what u play and how bad u are (against lower rank ppl)
http://oi43.tinypic.com/2hp3whk.jpg