Duty Roulette (remove the one person limit)

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Originally Posted by ispano

-Snoopy-

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My, aren't you obnoxious?
It can be both, it's just a matter of perspective.
And you can find the right definition in some cool dictionary, and I could say "Yeah, you're right, it's not the definition, but call it whatever you like and please make it work for you".
It's really not about the grammar, but about the concept. You FEEL punished, 'cause they give you less, 'cause you suffer a loss, 'cause you joined the queue with a friend.

You probably don't consider it a punishment because we, joining with a party, gets the same as before. So since we don't get less, that's still ok.
But from the moment they defined the bonus reward, they defined a new stardard gain, while exclusive to solo joiner (at least until 2.2).
Hence, since 30+Bonus is the new standard, we DO suffer a *comparative* (is this fine?) loss when we get just 30 and we do get *indirectly* (is this ok?) punished for our choice of playing with a friend. Or if not punished, whatever word your dictionary finds fitting is fine too.
It's about the feeling, not about the definition.

And really, people who quotes definitions to prove a point are terribly obnoxious. Be aware of that.
Yeah, yeah, I am too probably.
However, don't focus on me. Focus on the feelings of who likes playing with friend, and not on the words used to explain them.
You'll then be able to understand where the problem is, from our perspective.

again u fail to understand the concept of duty roulette. people stuck on que cant progress. if duty roulette was filled with premades then whats the point? might as well make make the rewards go for df too. which will then bring us back to square one

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Originally Posted by Sunah

There will always be a lot of people who queue solo anyway. Why the hell does it matter if people want to queue together with friends.

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read previous pages :3

There will always be a lot of people who queue solo anyway. Why the hell does it matter if people want to queue together with friends.

Compared to pre-2.1, there were quite literally zero level 50s queueing for lower level dungeons; there were very little people queueing for dungeons past their level at all. 2.1 brought the duty roulette which gave an incentive to those higher levels to return to lower level dungeons and receive relevant rewards for their levels. As stated in my previous reply, which quoted the live letters, there were/are plans to allow pre-mades into duty roulette. Over 2.0, even whilst allowing pre-mades, this still results in a net gain of players queueing for lower level dungeons, which is the point of duty roulette.

The only instance in which I can see duty roulette as being useless is if SE were to allow full four-man parties to sign up for duty roulette, which would completely negate the purpose thereof (but only in certain circumstances; there would still be solo 50s signing up for roulette). One may even argue that newbies to the game have yet to establish a network of friends so they will mostly be queueing alone, hence making even three-man parties useful in relieving queue times. Thus compared to 2.1, there may be a slight drop overall in 50s (or whatever) doing lower level dungeons, but allowing pre-mades (minus one space) into roulette would still raise the amount compared to 2.0.

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Originally Posted by ispano

No, it's an opportunity cost. Period.

"The cost of an alternative that must be forgone in order to pursue a certain action. Put another way, the benefits you could have received by taking an alternative action."

Choose to go solo with the roulette, you get the given bonus. Choose to group with friends, get faster clears on average.

Opportunity Cost.

If it was punishment, you would lose something you already get for grouping with friends. As an example, if you got 15 Myth instead of 30 if you go premade. That would be a punishment.

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Pretty much this. Only time i choose DFR over pre-made FC group is when there are no FC members to play with, i rather do one extra SR Haukke HM or any other new HM's with FC than gamble with DFR.

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Originally Posted by Taekrys

You probably don't consider it a punishment because we, joining with a party, gets the same as before. So since we don't get less, that's still ok.
But from the moment they defined the bonus reward, they defined a new stardard gain, while exclusive to solo joiner (at least until 2.2).
Hence, since 30+Bonus is the new standard, we DO suffer a *comparative* (is this fine?) loss when we get just 30 and we do get *indirectly* (is this ok?) punished for our choice of playing with a friend. Or if not punished, whatever word your dictionary finds fitting is fine too.
It's about the feeling, not about the definition.

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I think the biggest point is that Duty Roulette wasn't added to speed up everyone's progression, which is what you are viewing it as. You already had an advantage over solo players by having someone you can queue with to decrease your queue times, increase the speed / efficiency of your dungeon runs, and increase the success chances of your dungeon runs. Now solo players have a once a day bonus to help offset this advantage.

I don't necessarily see a problem with allowing 2, maybe even 3 to queue together for Duty Roulette, but I definitely hope they don't allow full pre-made groups. That removes all benefits the bonus adds and just allows those with a distinct advantage to progress even faster with no benefit at all to the community.

Keep in mind that I typically play with a group of 4. I was initially upset by this, until I thought *why* that might be the case.

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Originally Posted by thenewzero

Keep in mind that I typically play with a group of 4. I was initially upset by this, until I thought *why* that might be the case.

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again u fail to understand the concept of duty roulette. people stuck on que cant progress. if duty roulette was filled with premades then whats the point? might as well make make the rewards go for df too. which will then bring us back to square one

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I don't know why you all fastasize about this being some sort of SE plan with some deep motivation behind.
The only reason Lacerta already linked being the right one, is they still couldn't implement a way for more people to queue together.

Plus, I don't understand why you think that this "join a queue for random dungeon and get bonus prize" should be exclusive to not-full party or to solo players.
I would like to remember you that Blizzard did so for years, without players limitation, and no one ever said to them: "Hei, you should give the bonus only to single players who join for it!"
Giving the bonus for a random choice over a specifical choice, always seemed normal to everyone. Why now you say in such a confident way that it "Kills the purpose"? What changes TO YOU, other than waiting a little more for joining?
Why is this a principles argument, instead than just a practical one?

If groups were to join 4/4 for their own queue, you WOULDN'T EVEN MEET THEM. Why do you care how much they get? 'cause you are unhappy they don't feel forced to disband to enter YOUR group as single? So you're okay with the fact they were influenced to play alone, since you can have faster queue by SE convincing them it's better doing so, hence feeling conditioned to play in a way different from what they would elsewhere liked to do?

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Originally Posted by Taekrys

I don't know why you all fastasize about this being some sort of SE plan with some deep motivation behind.
The only reason Lacerta already linked being the right one, is they still couldn't implement a way for more people to queue together.

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people were complaining they were stuck with story quests duh. what is df if they cant fit more than one player?

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

people were complaining they were stuck with story quests duh. what is df if they cant fit more than one player?

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I agree wholehearted: putting dungeons and raids in the storyline (where the cutscenes always show you alone) was a terrible conceptual mistake.
Not mentioning that on deserted servers, in the future, it will become even harder.
I had a similar problem in 1.0, when I got back playing the last months: finding for a fresh 50 a Group to do just the job-equipment quests, was almost impossible. You had to join a Linkshell and hope some nice guys came to help you - just to get junk equipment, by the way.

However if THAT was the reason behind the Duty Roulette (you congecture, I suppose), they could leave one spot locked as free in all Duty Roulette except max level one. Problem solved, if a problem it was and if SE by any means intended that (and they didn't said).

roulette fills any slot thats might be required for all dungeons/main storylines so that more groups are processed quicker, and allows higher level players to assist the new low levels or first timers in the dungeon. Its a service to everyone by allowing yourself to be available. To me its an genius idea and im very happy about it. It has cut down my 30 min waits dramatically with my lower toons by having a 1 high level come in and plow with us.

Your not always alone in cutscenes, there might not be players but there is for the later storyline tasks, where everyone is included. Allowing you to always have interaction with others, even tho you are doing duty's , job quests or dungeons.

They can keep their current system personally because i get they need bodies for the lowbes and story stuff .. i remember the headache i did to find a story group that didn't just rush through it or wasn't afk.

Can I least have a random dungeon que button for when I am in a group? ^^;

i think this is fine how it is, Beacuse i tested how long wait time for dps doing lowbi instance was not more then 5 to 10min.
It usely can take up to 1hour + easy cuz lack of players that level range.

same goes for the Guildhests.

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Originally Posted by Taekrys

I agree wholehearted: putting dungeons and raids in the storyline (where the cutscenes always show you alone) was a terrible conceptual mistake.
Not mentioning that on deserted servers, in the future, it will become even harder.
I had a similar problem in 1.0, when I got back playing the last months: finding for a fresh 50 a Group to do just the job-equipment quests, was almost impossible. You had to join a Linkshell and hope some nice guys came to help you - just to get junk equipment, by the way.

However if THAT was the reason behind the Duty Roulette (you congecture, I suppose), they could leave one spot locked as free in all Duty Roulette except max level one. Problem solved, if a problem it was and if SE by any means intended that (and they didn't said).

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again i will repeat my point. 1 veteran player for every 3 lowbies vs 3 vets 1 lowbie. its basic math.

Wonder of they'll bring the mentor system back in some way.

I think the way things are works perfectly. Except the broken ass Siren fight in Pharos Sirius that makes everyone leave the dungeon as soon as they see it. Siren rates harder than any raid bosses right now, something's wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by Divinion

I think the way things are works perfectly. Except the broken ass Siren fight in Pharos Sirius that makes everyone leave the dungeon as soon as they see it. Siren rates harder than any raid bosses right now, something's wrong with that.

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Or they don't know the tactis whole dungeon is abit dps race to. If the Dps is low then its hard.

I would like them to compromise and at least allow us to play with one buddy (so preformed 2-man), it's annoying that if I log in and I want to play a daily that I need to lower my rewards just so I can play with people in a community. Last I checked, this was an online game and that sort of thing is supposed to be encouraged.

In case you're about to respond to this with an idiotic statement about opportunity cost I think you need to reevaluate your conception of what is real and what isn't, because opportunity cost was an economic concept formed in reaction to way reality is and isn't some kind of scientific rule to how it works. When the universe is under your control (hint: a designed game world) the existence of opportunity cost is completely at the whims of the developers so you shouldn't have to submit to opportunity cost unless it has some kind of gameplay function.

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Originally Posted by cotti

It's not, stop it. That's not what the roulette is for - get over it.

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We probably shouldn't presume to know what the Roulette is 'for', especially considering it sounds as if they may change it in 2.2. Nor do I imagine you'd want your own response there thrown back at you if/when groups are allowed to queue for Roulette and complaints form about it not being as helpful with solo.

SE put it in for their reasons, and will continue to use it as they see fit.

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Originally Posted by Rekujen

Why discourage players from joining their friends? seriously.. who's bright idea was this?

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I can't even seem to join a group my bf is in through queueing for roulette individually either, his group was looking for another heals, I signed up for the roulette and I wasn't put in his group even though he was waiting over an hour >.> wth?

I seriously can't wait to do roulette as a two man pt :D.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

I can't even seem to join a group my bf is in through queueing for roulette individually either, his group was looking for another heals, I signed up for the roulette and I wasn't put in his group even though he was waiting over an hour >.> wth?

I seriously can't wait to do roulette as a two man pt :D.

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this is pretty much it. there are still not enough players to fill all the slots for people queing, even with roulette. allowing premades in roulette will make it so even less people get their que's filled. they might expand on it later but right now. its still a big issue where people having a hard time to get into instances without a)being a tank/having a tank in party b)no one doing that particular instance.

Only if both characters are dps, then okay. Honestly though, your reward for going with any other friend is a smoother run, quicker queues, and playing with a friend. The bonus is from doing it solo, helping others, and getting out of your comfort zone. I'll use the thing i hear a lot of people say about mmos, if you don't want to play with other people, go play a single player game. It's not exact, but it's the same people complaining about pugs that just want to queue with friends or their FC and not stop foot out into it. I hope they never give any premade groups the reward.

I would support a random choice for premade or solo though, just not the same rewards.