The problem with allowing Turn 2 Rage strat

I'd like to see a group try to wait for T4 enrage before they kill any of the mobs. It's not likely to work as well as T2 enrage strat.

People do t2 enrage as they lack communication in their groups. Otherwise, doing it the normal way is far more time efficient. Don't really see this as an exploit. If you are constantly being forced to do it this way, you should consider changing groups or have more class options for turns 4 and 5.

So glad i'm in a static and I don't have to argue with bads over T2 enrage strats. Our team gets to ADS at 8clicks and we finish quickly cause ain't nobody got time for that.

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Originally Posted by SecsyMancat

crying.

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Lol.
/10char

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Originally Posted by SecsyMancat

To explain the T4 problem most tanks don't want to lock themselves out of T2...

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Bad logic, you can still 2 tank it. I play as WAR and we do the enrage thing, I just equipped dps gear for turn 2 and let the PLD tank. I put up the same numbers as a DRG without defiance on so nobody loses, and we beat turn 2 doing enrage using 2 tanks. If people wanna solo tank content they can for literally any fight in the game.

I love how everyone proposes workarounds for the tank imbalance in T2. That's not the problem, the problem is a large portion of tanks are not using these workarounds. It's simpler for them to grab whatever 2-3 scrub heals they can find and whatever 4-5 scrub dps they can find and run through T2. I know there's other ways to do this, and I know most static groups find other ways by utilizing their alt jobs. But this does not happen in pug groups and cause there to be an ever bigger than normal tank shortage for T4. Every night at prime time on my server you will find 3-6 groups looking for T4 that are 6/8 full and have no tanks.

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Originally Posted by SecsyMancat

I love how everyone

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Sounds like your OP is about the wrong issue then. You should be sick of people not using workarounds. For the record, having a tank put on DPS stuff isn't a work around, that's common sense.

Take issue with the community, not with T2 itself.

Your use of the word scrub is too vague. 1 scrub tank + 3 scrub healers + 4 scrub dps will die to enrage; that leaves us only to assume that you mean anyone who uses T2 enrage is a scrub, which is just a fallacy as I'm sure several are better than you and I both.

The big take away is, people can run T2 with 2 tanks in several different ways. The fact that they don't isn't the fault of enrage, it's people with blinders on and narrow minds.

My coil static does not use this strategy because we don't want to get rusty for when I (assume) SE will eventually prevent the enrage kill from being so easily pulled off. I was actually really surprised to find out that this 'enrage' strategy wasn't fixed in 2.1 or in the hotfix soon after. It seems that SE is condoning this way of clearing the boss. Otherwise, they would just increase the damage of AoEs or make the soft enrage turn into a harder enrage after a short period of time. To me, it seems silly that SE would create all of these intricate mechanics (AoEs, silences, rot rotation) if it was just possible to run in and deal with the 'soft enrage' AoE heals and zerging. But... if SE is allowing it... who am I to complain?

Lol this seems extremly boring.
But, if you are able to survive the enrage this has nothing to claim it an exploit, it's not like OMG we reach the enrage stop the healing and start all over again... If you are able to survive you are following the mechanics

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Originally Posted by Leon_Stormrage

Lol this seems extremly boring.
But, if you are able to survive the enrage this has nothing to claim it an exploit, it's not like OMG we reach the enrage stop the healing and start all over again... If you are able to survive you are following the mechanics

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You do understand that this is basically the first boss fight in MMO history where enraging it on purpose makes it easier right? Did you miss that part?

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

You do understand that this is basically the first boss fight in MMO history where enraging it on purpose makes it easier right? Did you miss that part?

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I wouldn't say it makes it easier, since it makes it considerably slower to complete and you need a rather specific party setup for it to work.

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty details, there is still a gear check on the tank (before the Boss they'll need to be able to withstand not being oneshot with 8 debuff stacks) and the Healers (they need a certain amount of HP to survive the enrage damage before the heals kick in) and a need for some decent means of MP management.

The enrage strategy just makes the boss fight simpler to handle mechanics-wise with a specific party composition. Because you trade having to worry about Silencing, Dodging or passing Allagan Rot around for a Healer gearcheck and staggered Manasong.

(The more recent teams I've been in actually wait until 2-3 clicks remaining to go in and start wailing on the boss. Rot gets passed once between the right people and then they all stack up and let the enrage happen before he hits 50%. Whenever the entire team is stacked up for AoE heals, rot isn't an issue anyway as it automatically passes between the right people. Getting him down to nearly 50% before the enrage hits means that you can build up a Limit Break, bring two tanks again and don't even need Manasong - but ADS' more annoying abilities are avoided/negated and there's no chance of missing a silence in the later stages)

We wiped two people messing around with this and still beat it. When we lost even 1 DD during normal mode we usually wiped since it screws up the timing on everything.

Maybe this 'enrage' @ 0 Clicks is the way the fight is supposed to be done and everything prior is actually the wrong way to do the fight?

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Originally Posted by LordSaviour

Maybe this 'enrage' @ 0 Clicks is the way the fight is supposed to be done and everything prior is actually the wrong way to do the fight?

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That'd be hilarious. The FFXIV dev team is sittin around going, "Oh my god, why are they running in there and dealing with all those abilities and rot and all that... what are they stupid? They should just wait for zero. We gave them time to kill the majority of nodes!"

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

That'd be hilarious. The FFXIV dev team is sittin around going, "Oh my god, why are they running in there and dealing with all those abilities and rot and all that... what are they stupid? They should just wait for zero. We gave them time to kill the majority of nodes!"

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Haha, right!!!!

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the strategy that is being used for the Binding Coil of Bahamut Turn 2 against ADS and they do not consider it to be an exploit. There are currently no plans to make any adjustments.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the strategy that is being used for the Binding Coil of Bahamut Turn 2 against ADS and they do not consider it to be an exploit. There are currently no plans to make any adjustments.

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Its not an exploit, its bad design. Enrage means if you don't kill it within the allotted time you lose. current ADS enrage means you can bypass all ADS mechanics, take 3 healers and automatically win, so all the work and effort put into ADS mechanics/design is out of the window, and turn 2 has turned into the new turn 3 but with free loot.

Tell developers that they should consider adjusting it not because its an exploit people are taking advantage of, but because ADS is a joke now and the fight mechanics are useless

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Originally Posted by Bankai305

Its not an exploit, its bad design. Enrage means if you don't kill it within the allotted time you lose. current ADS enrage means you can bypass all ADS mechanics, take 3 healers and automatically win, so all the work and effort put into ADS mechanics/design is out of the window, and turn 2 has turned into the new turn 3 but with free loot.

Tell developers that they should consider adjusting it not because its an exploit people are taking advantage of, but because ADS is a joke now and the fight mechanics are useless

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Don't worry the Dark Devices FATE was not an exploit. But they broke it. :-P

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Originally Posted by Bankai305

Its not an exploit, its bad design. Enrage means if you don't kill it within the allotted time you lose. current ADS enrage means you can bypass all ADS mechanics, take 3 healers and automatically win, so all the work and effort put into ADS mechanics/design is out of the window, and turn 2 has turned into the new turn 3 but with free loot.

Tell developers that they should consider adjusting it not because its an exploit people are taking advantage of, but because ADS is a joke now and the fight mechanics are useless

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Obviously they are aware that people are able to withstand what the community is calling "enrage" and they don't have a problem with it. They know what "enrage" means because they made it that way. Also, while this strategy may be easier on a technical level, any competent party can defeat the boss in considerably less time by utilizing the normal strategy. Personally i'd rather beat it faster than make an already not very difficult fight easier.

I can't fathom why people want this changed. The fact that this was figured out is fantastic and as long as it is left alone means player ingenuity is celebrated as opposed to being crushed.

Glitches and exploits such as locking a mob from performing actions need to be fixed, but working within mechanics to find alternative solutions needs to be encouraged so that we can escape from the theme park design that is so enforced in modern MMOs.

Multiple solutions is the right way to go.

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Originally Posted by Bankai305

Its not an exploit, its bad design. Enrage means if you don't kill it within the allotted time you lose.

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I'm so sick of this statement. SE employees kill you when they want to kill you. Primals and Twin come to mind; they know how to make a wipe you enrage and they did not do it for this.

"Oops! We forgot to make it wipe people!" If they wanted it to one-shot, it would already.

Edit: Ty for the info, Camate.

And sadly, I will now never have the chance to legitimately kill ADS.

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Originally Posted by Finuve

I can't fathom why people want this changed. The fact that this was figured out is fantastic

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Yeah...except you could clear it far faster the normal way ;p

Speed run WP and lockout mobs
Speed run Garuda by ignoring plumes
Speed run Praetorium

Speed running ignoring all sorts, just to make it easier, but what about non speed stuff?

Joining turn 1 being on the snake and skipping ADS, how many has done that? bet OP has, skipped an entire boss for phat lootz.

So many of you are hypocrites, this no different, using mechanics to make things easier to get loots. Guarantee OP did one of the above, or still does, and there are many other examples.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

Don't worry the Dark Devices FATE was not an exploit. But they broke it. :-P

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Truth. And funnier still they claimed that the DD "adjustment" was an accident and yet it hasn't been fixed yet. Strange! Moot point these days I guess, but still. :p

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Originally Posted by Ashira

They might have what it takes to beat Turn 2 using this cheap method, but Turn 3 will certainly stop them in their tracks..

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Wow, Turn 3... I hate its final boss.
It will definitely stop any bad guy who did T2 with 0 click method.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the strategy that is being used for the Binding Coil of Bahamut Turn 2 against ADS and they do not consider it to be an exploit. There are currently no plans to make any adjustments.

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I remember back then when Devs said farming DD waves wasn't an exploit and yet ended up being ninja nerfed.

So... If you guys are just too bad to kill him legit, do the enrage strat while you still can. I honestly expect it to be ninja nerfed at some point anytime "soon".

I honestly couldn't care less about a ninja nerf. Because 1, our group isnt bad enough to use such cheap tactic and 2, even if we were bad, we wouldn't do an enrage run because... we have some pride y'know.

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

I remember back then when Devs said farming DD waves wasn't an exploit and yet ended up being ninja nerfed.

So... If you guys are just too bad to kill him legit, do the enrage strat while you still can. I honestly expect it to be ninja nerfed at some point anytime "soon".

I honestly couldn't care less about a ninja nerf. Because 1, our group isnt bad enough to use such cheap tactic and 2, even if we were bad, we wouldn't do an enrage run because... we have some pride y'know.

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Do you kill all the mobs in Turn 3, or are you too bad to? The answer is that there is no reason to. That is the same answer for the question, "should people have to do T2 the 'normal' way as you see fit?" Some people do it this way, some people don't. Guess what... a lot of the people who do it this way can do it the "normal" way, too, but they don't feel like it and there is no reason to. If it gets "fixed" people are still going to be clearing it. So, for now, the people complaining about enrage can rest on your laurels way up on that imaginary pedestal and realize killing T2 "normally" isn't even anything to be proud of.

You can't even sound elitist very well, but i'll give you a generous 4/10.

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Originally Posted by Finuve

I can't fathom why people want this changed. The fact that this was figured out is fantastic and as long as it is left alone means player ingenuity is celebrated as opposed to being crushed.

Multiple solutions is the right way to go.

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It's not fantastic, it's putting a bunch of awful players who aren't competent enough to complete T2 into T4, where they're even less competent.

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Originally Posted by BrandoH

It's not fantastic, it's putting a bunch of awful players who aren't competent enough to complete T2 into T4, where they're even less competent.

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And this even matters because.....?

The only problem I have with this is, there are 3 healers competing for 1 item lot. It's a paradise tho if you're a tank - you instantly get all the tank drops.
I find it hypocritic where on one side you get told that bringing two people of the same class will kill your limit break filling in, or that you should bring meele classes to Garuda EX (hahaha) and next day all the parties for T2 want to bring 3 healers.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the strategy that is being used for the Binding Coil of Bahamut Turn 2 against ADS and they do not consider it to be an exploit. There are currently no plans to make any adjustments.

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please ninja fix like you did DD

i grow tired of seeing all the shouts for 0 click

Lol Y'all mad?! My goodness. People are so concerned about stuff that doesn't really affect them (especially in STATIC GROUPS). Get over it

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Originally Posted by Bankai305

Its not an exploit, its bad design. Enrage means if you don't kill it within the allotted time you lose. current ADS enrage means you can bypass all ADS mechanics, take 3 healers and automatically win, so all the work and effort put into ADS mechanics/design is out of the window, and turn 2 has turned into the new turn 3 but with free loot.

Tell developers that they should consider adjusting it not because its an exploit people are taking advantage of, but because ADS is a joke now and the fight mechanics are useless

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It's just a turn 2. It's working as intended like the dev said. If turn 2 can't be done easier than turn 3, why is it turn 2?

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Originally Posted by Umero

It's just a turn 2. It's working as intended like the dev said. If turn 2 can't be done easier than turn 3, why is it turn 2?

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T2 is harder than T4 if you do them correctly.

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

T2 is harder than T4 if you do them correctly.

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that's exactly why they don't mess with the enrage thing as is. Because it's NOT supposed to be harder.

This is just another group of ppl who are pissed because they didn't think of the rage mode first. If you can handle rot than great, do it and save yourself some time. Let the ppl who choose the easy way sit around and do nothing while waiting for the timer. Who gives a damn. If this wasn't an intended strategy, then the rage would simply wipe your party like EVERY OTHER 2-hour in the game. Get over it.

The only people who would be defensive about this 'enrage' would be incompetent players and tanks.

I mean, who doesn't want to be the only tank in the party to have no competition in rolling for tank gear? Turn 2/4 Enrage should've been an instant wipe like Turn 5.

Ha salted! Not an exploit. It's not cheating. Cheating is not being able to be killed like the tree exploit in what was it AK?

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

T2 is harder than T4 if you do them correctly.

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It's a lies for those new ppl's who stepped in Coil after enrage strat popped up lol , T4 much harder that t2 (proper) . My team wasted only 3 days for complete T2 , then once we start did good we allways 1 shot it , BUT !! we still having hard time on t4 (idk why , maybe something wrong with us XD)
Oh and i dont care , SE fix T2 or not , if done this proper once , will do allways... at least if you in static team .