how can end game be epic if we can hit multiple enemys?

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

Btw, i can remember a lot of fights in ffxi with adds
and we could hit them with aoe, sometimes tactics require it, other don't (and was bad hitting that :X )
so, the hell we discussing ?

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yes some fights required this but the entire game of ff14 can be done like this and just by how thier going on right now it seems like it will stay that way and that kind of game i wouldnt want to play :| idk y any1 else would

because its kind of boring to fight one mob all the time no matter the situation

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Originally Posted by Physic

because its kind of boring to fight one mob all the time no matter the situation

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and groups of more than 1 mob thats just a stupid redcoat that will die easy with some aoes is much more fun? atleast when u fight 1 at atime they can make it so u have to have some kind of strat. like dynamis with the nin monsters you had to zerg it afeter so much hp or maybe wipe u cant do that when thiers a group of ppl because u cant be that focused and i wouldnt like to have a random wipe because 1 of the group of monsters just decided to use a wipe move.
yet that wont even be the case because this game is so easy mode even the bosses will be redcoats who dont pose a threat

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Originally Posted by danny52844

and groups of more than 1 mob thats just a stupid redcoat that will die easy with some aoes is much more fun? atleast when u fight 1 at atime they can make it so u have to have some kind of strat. like dynamis with the nin monsters you had to zerg it afeter so much hp or maybe wipe u cant do that when thiers a group of ppl because u cant be that focused and i wouldnt like to have a random wipe because 1 of the group of monsters just decided to use a wipe move.
yet that wont even be the case because this game is so easy mode even the bosses will be redcoats who dont pose a threat

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you can have strats with multiple mobs, you can have some people take care of some, others that can be slept, some that can be kited, all going on at the same time. You can have some being tanked. its not as simple as gather mobs and aoe, dif classes can take different amounts. Your limiting your strategy and thought process to one mob. Thats a simpler easier strategy, sleep everything and kill it one by one. In dyna xarc, the ability to adapt on the fly and handle multiple sleep resistant monsters, was the difference between real skilled play, and a simple overused strategy. Get your mental skills up so you can come up with more varied strategies.

Im not saying it should be all aoe all the time, im saying thier should be different situations, its perfectly feasible for someone to say,

pug gets big guy on right
glad takes bigger guy on left

marauder distract those three dudes
conjurer support the marauder with aoe damage help, and watch for a link, sleep them if they come, archer assist pug on damage, and binds to help conjurer with CC

if you kill your mobs first assist whoever finishes, we all come together to kill the glads enemy when we re done.
sure its harder than sleep kill move on to the next. but thats the point.

My eyes hurt.

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Originally Posted by Physic

you can have strats with multiple mobs, you can have some people take care of some, others that can be slept, some that can be kited, all going on at the same time. You can have some being tanked. its not as simple as gather mobs and aoe, dif classes can take different amounts. Your limiting your strategy and thought process to one mob. Thats a simpler easier strategy, sleep everything and kill it one by one. In dyna xarc, the ability to adapt on the fly and handle multiple sleep resistant monsters, was the difference between real skilled play, and a simple overused strategy. Get your mental skills up so you can come up with more varied strategies.
Im not saying it should be all aoe all the time, im saying thier should be different situations, its perfectly feasible for someone to say,

pug gets big guy on right
glad takes bigger guy on left

marauder distract those three dudes
conjurer support the marauder with aoe damage help, and watch for a link, sleep them if they come, archer assist pug on damage, and binds to help conjurer with CC

if you kill your mobs first assist whoever finishes, we all come together to kill the glads enemy when we re done.
sure its harder than sleep kill move on to the next. but thats the point.

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or u could just have the pug and maur in the same group and just aoe the entire group with every1? thats so hard

simply put, thats only if the game mechanics allow that, as it is, their are times when trying to do that will get everyone killed, also pug is not good at aoe. pug has one aoe move in its natural set, aoe used outside of the correct job is like 65% potency and not nearly as accurate.
pug however is fairly good at tanking one monster, and doing damage while tanking it.

theirs also the matter of holding hate.

essentially if you are talking about a good party versus party combat, you could build it so you have to sleep every add, or you could build it so you gather and aoe everything, but the key to making an epic fight, is to build a system where neither is always the answer, and sometimes you even do both at once. Designing such a system is not impossible, in fact it aint even that far from what we could have now, and imo that would be way more epic.

Basically epic isnt necessarilly taking one mob down at a time. I dont see why you think that is epic. Building interesting party versus party combat is something many people want to see. going back to sleep kill strat working for every situation is not a step forward.

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Originally Posted by jwang

This. This so much. When I first heard of Dynamis, I was thinking elite army vs. horde of adventurers. Instead, we got this snoozefest. Seriously, Dynamis was not epic. It was challenging yes, but not epic. Ganging up on a single person while his buddies are sleeping is not epic. Beating up a person while your buddies are holding off his buddies is. Best fight in FFXI that illustrates this point? Moblin fight. Definitely one of the most exciting fights, right after Airship.

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Methinks you didn't do or forgot Divine Might & Apocalypse Nigh. I had many truly awesome Divine Might battles. I think I did it four or five times total and I always had a awesome feeling of "holy shit we did it!" afterward as multiple teams are tasked with defeating or stalling multiple, powerful enemies.

The problem with Divine Might and Apocalypse Nigh is that it can be cheesed badly with all the abilities and spells you have access to at level 75. You time nuke Divine Might or super tank it, I've done both and super tank method was definitely more exciting and fun. Apocalypse Nigh is also fun, but with access to zerg tools, it can become a cheesefest. Airship and Moblin fight have the benefit of restricting you through the number enemies you have to take down (preventing k-club/m. kris DRK or SMN Astral zerg) as well as having a level 60 restriction (preventing you from using uber gear and abilities to cheese things). Plus, Airship had 2 bosses, along with CS in between, and a tight timer to complete all 3 fights. In comparison, Divine Might and Apocaplyse Nigh usually ends up with people dead or the thing won.

Oh. Well... the level caps were fist-shakingly frustrating but they made CoP the best expansion of XI even though it was hated at the time (not by me, but by my LSs). I never did DM or AN in the ways you described. It doesn't even bother me they can be done that way. I don't do things "just to do them" or "for the reward as quickly as I can." So I don't suffer from those that a lot.

I did my share of BLM burning BCNMs but that was never "easy" just "easier." It took some coordination to bounce hate from mage to mage, or skilled kiting, since it was not an instant kill.

Anyway, I agree with you I guess, but the Airship & Moblin were two of the most boring fights for me in CoP. Just different strategies or different personal experiences, I don't know. LOL.

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Originally Posted by Shai

Methinks you didn't do or forgot Divine Might & Apocalypse Nigh. I had many truly awesome Divine Might battles. I think I did it four or five times total and I always had a awesome feeling of "holy shit we did it!" afterward as multiple teams are tasked with defeating or stalling multiple, powerful enemies.

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Divine Might would have worked better as a mimic to Four Horsemen in Naxxrammas (which required two melee tanks and two ranged tanks). Instead, DM is AoE spam fest with a ton of damage floating around (mostly because of the TP system being universal instead of only limited to player characters), with next to no way to control damage taken aside from abusing emnity mechanics (AKA the super tank method). A guy in plate armor kiting the archangels around while the others are picking them off one by one is not exactly epic.

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Originally Posted by jwang

This. This so much. When I first heard of Dynamis, I was thinking elite army vs. horde of adventurers. Instead, we got this snoozefest. Seriously, Dynamis was not epic. It was challenging yes, but not epic. Ganging up on a single person while his buddies are sleeping is not epic. Beating up a person while your buddies are holding off his buddies is. Best fight in FFXI that illustrates this point? Moblin fight. Definitely one of the most exciting fights, right after Airship.

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I would say Divine Might was pretty epic as well, considering you couldn't sleep the Ark Angels, and the fact that it was difficult to win that fight without wiping at least once. At least for the tank anyway.