Dear DPS....I am *SO* sorry

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I'm not gonna defend us either, except to say that the other groups aren't going to be perfect, either. :P

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Can't argue with that.

As a tank, my favorite is trying to weave in that one storm's path to get the damage debuff, but every time you do it, the insanely geared monk takes hate for a split second. It's a rare thing for me to experience hate issues at all, but when I do.. I wonder if they ever consider slowing the pace even briefly.. it's not that I am using the wrong rotations. My GCD on generating enmity is a bit weaker than a SS stacked monk, that's all.

The other problem is dps attacking a target before threat CAN be built.. and then not stopping.. example: pulling suprana or chirada off of the MT in Garuda EX... It just so happens the add decides to pop slip stream after the voke and tomahawk throw... I am sitll throwing tomahawks but because I dodged the slipstream this particular BLM managed to pull hate.. my voke is obviously on CD at this point and he continued to wrestle with me for the mob as I tried to get it into position again. Similarly, while voking the spiny plume, there will be a moment where the two tanks need to help each other get into range to do the trade off properly... You'd think a good dps would realize this small time frame is going to be a bad time to unload all of their CD's.. but...

Waiting for slipstream to go off before voke is nice too, if it i an option. If the MT has trouble dodging wicked wheels then you need to get that second add off of him/her ASAP by request of tank AND healers... tl;dr.. any encounter in this game is a team event.. people need to treat it that way rather than saying

"This fight is all about the tanks." If DPS can't do great damage while minding the mechanics then you will fail every time, even if both tanks are executing the mechanics flawlessly. 15 hours of that on Saturday then 5 hours of farming with the FC with no change to the strategy.. two warrior's tanking the entire time. my Ilvl is only 76 for the record.

Anyone else notice the absurd requests for ilvl80+ on Ultimate weapon? hahah he only drops ilvl 70 gear ffs lol... people looking to try and out gear shit rather than learn it are funny.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

Playing a tank role brings out the control freak in people. After tanking in various MMOs for 10 years I'm more than happy to resign myself to sticking with DPS roles. I just don't need the stress anymore.

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The amusing part is where people are mainly running into that behavior (dungeons) is where there's no need to be a super control freak. If a dps or healer would fall over dead of a mob looked at them for more than 3 seconds it would be one thing, but they can comfortably take one and often 2 things without any major issues. Thus dps players are very lazy about watching threat since it doesn't really matter if they pull off the tank the vast majority of the time.

This is the reason I ended up becoming a tank. I started off as a healer but since so many of the tanks I ran into were either douches, incompetent or both I decided it would be easier to tank for myself. I've got a Scholar now since I miss healing but runs can be interesting if I end up with a muppet tank.

I had brief control freak period when I started tanking but I soon settled down and don't stress myself out trying to reason with idiots in DF which are thankfully quite rare.

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Originally Posted by Vortok

The amusing part is where people are mainly running into that behavior (dungeons) is where there's no need to be a super control freak. If a dps or healer would fall over dead of a mob looked at them for more than 3 seconds it would be one thing, but they can comfortably take one and often 2 things without any major issues. Thus dps players are very lazy about watching threat since it doesn't really matter if they pull off the tank the vast majority of the time.

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This is very true.

the most i hate is when a bard try to give advice to melee dps why not give debuff or evade aoe

bard the one that range att,no cast time,no need think about combo,easy to eavede aoe,hardly get into aoe and never play melee dps class try to act as pro dps

It's the job of a DPS to do as much damage as possible and support the tank/healer roles during their normal rotations.

A Shoulder Tackle or Steel Peak, cycling into Arm of the Destroyer or skipping Twin Snakes or True Strike for One Ilm Punch has saved so many of my parties.

As far as tank and healer **** go though; yes there are a lot of nasty ones out there who need the ego trip, but these guys come no where near some of the bards I've been stuck with.
Ultima HM...
WHM: [Melee DPS] just plow through them, you got your pots right?
SCH: I know that [both heals] have mana pots.
Me: Hey Bard, can [Melee DPS] get TP song during Ifrit part? We are going to be running low until lasers spawn.
BRD: l2p and manage ur tp

Or WP...
Me: Bard on adds please?
BRD: Go and die please.

Or DH... AK... Praetorium... Not a lot of good memories with Bards... That's why I ignore everyone else in PVP and chase them down. I think I have issues...

Boy am I ever not feeling the bard love tonight either. I normally play alongside a bard, and he's great, but PUG bards can be awful. Got one mad at me for stupid shit during a Haukke HM boss tonight (I used a gap closer to get to an add?). He apologized, but still - and it was the tank that told him to chill.

And the 'healers/ranged DPS/etc. giving melee DPS advice' is always fun. I want your heals, I really do... but I can't not run when there's an AoE. As a friend of mine puts it, I have the range of a(n admittedly giant) toothpick. I can't really *stay* halfway across the room from whatever I'm supposed to be DPSing.

Well I'm mainly a Warrior tank but I've recently been playing Dragoon a lot more and enjoying the rotation and dps of it. But as many have said I didn't quite notice the terrible tanks until I started not tanking and for some reason most of the terrible tanks themselves are Paladins, the horror stories I've had so far of these egotistical self righteous pompous princesses. Theses guys don't even communicate with the group and start pulling packs upon packs forcing a speed run for no apparent reason, Getting stuck in an endless loop of a Slenderberry stabbing at the party with the tank positioning the packs poorly until I say to follow my lead and break away into a safespot, then they have the nerve to bark COMMEND ME.

EDIT: OH AND BARDS, omg these guys when they don't sing when I'm bottoming out on TP around 20-30% of a fight remaining and say manage TP better I just want to smack them upside down due to their arrogance in thinking they're too good to since to keep the tanks/melee supplied with enough TP to sustain their much higher DPS rotations compared to the bard's throughput.

Bard's seem to have it in their minds that they are the biggest DPS.

I just laugh at them and tell them they rolled the wrong class for that, and continue to blow their dps out of the water. I also never fail to point out that as a DRG i help them more than they help me, and it's well within my right (and a DPS boost, i might add) to leave out impulse drive and disembowel, lowering their DPS by 11%, if they won't run TP for me, or the warrior/paladin, or monk.

What they need to realize is that a Bard is not a DPS, never was. They SING SONGS. Really. Singing, and they think they are DPS kings. I'll stick to the people with weapons and magic to do DPS, and leave the BRD behind if he chooses to be bad.

On another note, since this is a post about moody/unskilled players, it is not restricted to any job or role. DPS just don't usually get as much attention for it because they are easily replaced. Fair enough, but i challenge you to find a melee DPS as good as me ;P

I have done CT once. with some friends. We cued. Granted we weren't the best geared in the alliance, but we weren't the worst either.It was a first time for alot of us and let me say, I have been in some horrible DFs with people in in the HM Primals, but this one takes the cake, the Alliance I was in has a few people that knew the fight, but i think most of us were new. First it started with a few of us wiping at the very end of the first fight, a Tank (here on out will be refered to as god) in one of the alliances decided that he was in a hurry, and agro'd. Locking several of out. First boss, the god and his alliance Co tank decided to berate everyone cause we wiped (granted it was over something simple, but it was never clearly explained and god decided that the bigger the words the more of them he used, the smarter he sounded) Several people in my party english is not there first language, and as i was trying to explain in voice to them, things were pulled before a ready check, even though i asked for a sec to explain. finally a healer in out party decided to simplify god's overly complicated strat and we started to to get into a decent groove. On the last boss, god told everyone to stand in the comets for the bosses attack thing, so we do and die. then calls us fucking noobs for not standing behind it... I have to say, if this is the people i have to look forward to playing with in CT, i may not que again.

I've done CT twice. First was great, queued with my FC and we used Vent. Second time... party finder attempt, because I figured it would be less scary that straight up duty finder. Nope. You know all these awful tanks talked about in this thread? Imagine like 6 of them in the same dungeon. Couldn't agree on tactics, kept bitching at and blaming each other (both within and across alliances) and just dragged the entire instance to hell. (It didn't help that the DPS was a little slow in the other alliances, but the tanks were just all a-holes which made it so much worse.)

It's really too bad that my first, prior PF attempt at CT had to wipe at Atomos due to glitches, because that was a really good, cooperative and non-bitchy group all around. :(

From what i've seen personally, 4mans you can get away with some arrogant asses and be ok. 8mans its alot more noticable when someone isn't doing something right. take a moment, explain it, fix the problem, move on, problem solved, people learned, cotton candy and bubble gum for all. and then CT comes out.. suddenly everyone, even if they're in there for the first time, are eatting caviar and farting rose scented pink puffy clouds. i understand fully that every mmo will have its players that cause issues, but when people are the first to point a finger and blame others, rather just accept when they make a mistake, as a community it will all just fall apart. when offtanking bone dragon, i overtabbed and voked the dragon. the MT got a little moody, but a sec to grab my add, drag it off, kill it, continue on as normal. apologize for my mistake, tank doesn't mind, understand that accidents happen. turns out to be one of the quickest, easiest, and most fun run i've done of CT so far.

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Originally Posted by Pavise

EDIT: OH AND BARDS, omg these guys when they don't sing when I'm bottoming out on TP around 20-30% of a fight remaining and say manage TP better I just want to smack them upside down due to their arrogance in thinking they're too good to since to keep the tanks/melee supplied with enough TP to sustain their much higher DPS rotations compared to the bard's throughput.

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I'm assuming you're saying something in chat when your TP is getting low? BRD's can see when MP is getting to be a potential problem, but they can't see your TP, so speak up, and don't wait until the last minute to do so...it's not uncommon to not see party chat immediately during a fight, especially if the fight seems to be going smoothly.

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Originally Posted by Kirosuu

the most i hate is when a bard try to give advice to melee dps why not give debuff or evade aoe

bard the one that range att,no cast time,no need think about combo,easy to eavede aoe,hardly get into aoe and never play melee dps class try to act as pro dps

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This is why I don't meddle with other classes. I would rather stick to what I know about my role and offer my own knowledge and experience on what to look out for in whatever the situation the party's in. What you make of it is ultimately up to you.

I would never dream of backseat driving your class. No thanks.

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Originally Posted by Pavise

EDIT: OH AND BARDS, omg these guys when they don't sing when I'm bottoming out on TP around 20-30% of a fight remaining and say manage TP better I just want to smack them upside down due to their arrogance in thinking they're too good to since to keep the tanks/melee supplied with enough TP to sustain their much higher DPS rotations compared to the bard's throughput.

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You do realize we don't see anybody's TP but our own... right? It helps to say something. Communication is kind of key.

BLM was my first job, and with the long dungeon ques I didn't get to experience many pug tanks. Second job was PLD, so that just even further limited my pug tank exposure to near non-existent. CT comes along and I'm ready to gouge my eyes out because of pug tanks.
First CT went great. Half the group was new and we had someone explain it to us. Flawless run. Everyone was patient, understanding, etc. Every single run after that during the second week has turned into a pissing contest between tanks and what group can kill things fastest. The amount of trash talk being exchanged is astounding.
CT has been an eye opener. And it's almost to the point where gear from there isn't worth the stress and headache of over-inflated, arrogant windbags that seem to accompany each run. The only way I seem to be able to force myself through a run is to just turn alliance chat off and let someone else handle the coordinating.

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Originally Posted by Pavise

EDIT: OH AND BARDS, omg these guys when they don't sing when I'm bottoming out on TP around 20-30% of a fight remaining and say manage TP better I just want to smack them upside down due to their arrogance in thinking they're too good to since to keep the tanks/melee supplied with enough TP to sustain their much higher DPS rotations compared to the bard's throughput.

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It's possible that they're assessing your gear level and deciding not to assist you (iLvl 90 vs your iLvl 70 and no Relic + 1). If a BRD overgears the other DPS in a 4man team (and there's no WAR tank), then it's actually detrimental for them to play songs for you.

That said, when there's no songs played, it's optimal to wait out of combat until full TP (double regen tick) ... and or attempt to time it so that you don't start AoEing until BFB + IR are ready. Once out of TP your efficiency goes drastically down, as you can no longer fit in attacks during buffs. This is generally what a BRD means whenever they're telling you to manage TP better [unless of course they're simply a jerk-bag / not a team-player].

EDIT 2: A good BRD will also attempt to burn their TP in the opening, and won't give you Paeon until they've unloaded at full damage. So they may also mean for you to 'hold out' before unloading, unless Invigorate is ready.

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

You do realize we don't see anybody's TP but our own... right? It helps to say something. Communication is kind of key.

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I actually get yelled at by most people for use of a TP-macro, claiming that it's annoying, and they're "aware" that I'm out of TP / don't care... Or, told that it's "obvious" based on my opening into single target attacks / use of Invigorate.

I suppose this depends on the person.. Announcing it tends to just make things worse though in the typical PUG / cause the bard NOT to play songs for you, as you sound needy / demanding (telling them how to play their job).

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

Neverwinter: worst.community.ever. (to me anyway)

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League of Legends... OCE server...
So much mud slinging...

im going to enjoy this :P
1. tanks pulling mobs not of their assignment. (i.e. a let b middle c right etc)
2. tanks provoking mobs off other tanks and facing them wrong and/or tanks that fight other tanks for aggro tooth an nail on adds like its some kinda contest.
3. tanks that get pissy when you try to inform them they are doing something wrong.
4. healers that think renew is the end all/be all spell :P (yeah i should watch what buffs i have on too and decide when to leave them or remove them but if your spamming it it becomes a bitch to manage)
5. Ranged DPS that start to unload on a mob right after a tomahawk/shield lob, or even worse range dps that start to unload when the tank takes a step towards the mob :P

Overall though has been pretty good, or worse case, incredibly amusing lol. To those saying worse community though, guess you have never LFR'd on WoW :P Also a warning, this will potentially get worse as the weeks pass and ppl "patching" their mains stop que'ing and get replaced by completely new players. (Not as bad as with some other games since those same ppl will have alts on same avatar, but will still happen some) All I can say is patience young grasshoppa!

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Originally Posted by RaineMagus

I actually get yelled at by most people for use of a TP-macro, claiming that it's annoying, and they're "aware" that I'm out of TP / don't care... Or, told that it's "obvious" based on my opening into single target attacks / use of Invigorate.

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I want this-- No. I FREAKING NEED THIS. Seriously. I can't speak for every other bard, but I don't pay attention to what every little thing that a class is doing (Except White Mage, cuz I do pay attention to their MP.). I know my role and my role alone. I hope that's not necessarily a bad thing, but I haven't been around long enough to learn every other class's skills.

Why can't I see others' TP in the first place?! It always made no sense to me.

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Originally Posted by RaineMagus

Announcing it tends to just make things worse though in the typical PUG / cause the bard NOT to play songs for you, as you sound needy / demanding (telling them how to play their job).

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I've had people telling me to use one of my songs. I have 2k MP sitting there. You need them? Take them. TAKE ALL OF IT, I DON'T USE IT.~

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

I want this-- No. I FREAKING NEED THIS. Seriously. I can't speak for every other bard, but I don't pay attention to what every little thing that a class is doing (Except White Mage, cuz I do pay attention to their MP.). I know my role and my role alone. I hope that's not necessarily a bad thing, but I haven't been around long enough to learn every other class's skills.

Why can't I see others' TP in the first place?! It always made no sense to me.

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Then you friend, are one of the 'nice' and open minded players out there. Of those who don't take things personally. Sadly this cannot be said of many, where any comment tends to get taken out of context or seen as backseat driving.

--Far as TP meters on the UI, can't agree more there. This would be very beneficial to many jobs (not just BRD), especially those of us playing as tanks to see when the DPS can't burn any further and there's a need to stay-alive / kite.

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Originally Posted by RaineMagus

Snip

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I'm logged out on alt gear, I'm a warrior tank main. Pretty well geared at that too so I'm talking about running dungeons/other content where TP is hard pressed for a warrior and in chat saying plainly to sing for some TP.

But hey like everyone's ranting in this thread this isn't gonna ready the intended targets because they couldn't give a rat's to even search these forums.

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

I've had people telling me to use one of my songs. I have 2k MP sitting there. You need them? Take them. TAKE ALL OF IT, I DON'T USE IT.~

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Oh our team's whm is running out of mana healing the team? BETTER KEEP MY MANA INSTEAD OF USING A SONG.

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

This is why I don't meddle with other classes. I would rather stick to what I know about my role and offer my own knowledge and experience on what to look out for in whatever the situation the party's in. What you make of it is ultimately up to you.

I would never dream of backseat driving your class. No thanks.

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Thank you, I wish more people had this attitude. I don't know shit about tanking, healing or even ranged DPSing, and when it's clear someone hasn't done melee DPS much if ever, they are the last person to give me advice on the role I play in pretty much every game.

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Originally Posted by JetBrooks

and DPS may give each other advice on rotations

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Last time I tried to tell this one BLM that they should use Fire 3 or Blizzard 3 to change between UI and AF and not to cast thunder while in AF I was told "I should just shut up because I don't know anything". He didn't really improve for the rest of the run and parsed -- for whatever the parser are worth -- about 60 DPS lower than another BLM we had, who had worse gear than the first one.

Aww, I love you Quor. It's not just tanks though, so don't feel like you have to apologize for other people's behaviors. Q_Q
A lot of people in CT seem to be stuck up and they act as if they're the only ones who know the dungeon, not paying
in mind that a lot of things can go wrong and sometimes parties have new people.
Just a couple of days ago, I had an alliance group yelling stuff like "Group C, stop being so damn slow." or "Group A, noobs,
stop fucking dying." Oh but that they all wanted to be main tank and kept wipeing the whole alliance didn't seem to matter
much to them, then it was just "Get over it" or "Shut up and play".
The main culprit in all this weren't the tanks though, it was one of the healers and a dps.

So from a healer's and a DPS' perspective, I am truly sorry, too. :/

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Originally Posted by Vulpix

Oh our team's whm is running out of mana healing the team? BETTER KEEP MY MANA INSTEAD OF USING A SONG.

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http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pu...hat_2_3571.jpg

Thats funny. I was asked to turn my song off because it cut my DPS. I had it up to allow our healer and blackmage to basically keep dropping the hammer, and I was asked to turn it off.

Still. Anyone who's partied with me ever needs a song active, lemme know, tho be aware that I don't have the TP Song..YET.

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Originally Posted by Vivienne_Sokah

Thats funny. I was asked to turn my song off because it cut my DPS. I had it up to allow our healer and blackmage to basically keep dropping the hammer, and I was asked to turn it off.

Still. Anyone who's partied with me ever needs a song active, lemme know, tho be aware that I don't have the TP Song..YET.

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That's true, but which is better? Have full DPS attack on a boss while the other party members are lagging behind of low MP or Replenish their MP with the cost of your own DPS getting cut by like 20%? Up to you, really.

Although everyone and their grandmother would choose the latter, I bet.

LAtter for me. Hey, As long as I can help my team. I don't care if my DPS takes a hit. People are wierd.

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Originally Posted by Vivienne_Sokah

LAtter for me. Hey, As long as I can help my team. I don't care if my DPS takes a hit. People are wierd.

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I totally agree. It is simple really, just think about it.
Would you rather 1 person stand there, dealing 0% damage, while you deal 100%?
Or, would you rather deal 80% of your damage, while they are getting MP/TP back and dealing 100%?

You are hurting your team if you act greedy to save your own DPS. If only more Bards thought this way, it is a shame. Good to see a team player.


On Topic
Thanks for your condolences OP. Some tanks (and just some people in general) act rather rude. I think it is because they know they are a needed class, so they feel they are in charge and can act in whatever manner they wish. I only been here for 2 months, and I could tell 100 stories already of arrogant and rude tanks.

I feel sorry for people who are so out of control of their emotions that they can't enjoy a game.
I'm sure it isn't the only place in their life where they are useless in the face of adversity. Must really suck to be in their skull!

If DPS grabs agro - it's a challenge for me to get it back. If healers grab agro - I'd better get it back! If we wipe, we just go back to start - no harm done. Unexpected is fun, just running a patterned fingerdance has no meaning to me.

I felt bad for a group that I "joined" in WP once. The previous tank had rage-quit, I'm not sure why. The Dragoon was new to WP. We made it through and he was great at it. It was an extremely easy run. All classes have to realize you can't do dungeons alone. It's a team effort. That's what I enjoy about this game, how quickly a team can come together.

Oh and if someone rages and TYPES LIKE THIS - just read it in a high squeaky voice. That's probably how they are in the real world anyway.

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Originally Posted by Vulpix

Oh our team's whm is running out of mana healing the team? BETTER KEEP MY MANA INSTEAD OF USING A SONG.

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Sometimes I get too absorbed into my crossbar and the fight itself. So, I end up stop paying attention to the status bars, and chat sometimes. The more hectic fights can be a bit much to keep fully focused, tbh.

I've seen some of those "I'm not going to use songs" Bards while on my own, luckily I pull the slack in return. General rule for Bards using songs are the following 3.

1. Foe Requiem: Try not to use this with trash mobs, it grabs a lot of aggro to you from anything the tank hasn't hit (I'm not sure how), as anything within hearing distance will instantly aim for you. Try to save this for a boss fight, and only if you know you're not going to need to use Mage's Ballad or Army's Paean.

2. Mage's Ballad: Don't use this unless the healer is a WHM, and only if they're below 50% MP. At that point, Battle Voice it and keep it up until their MP is back at max or you're out of MP, whichever comes first.

3. Army's Paean: Use this if you run low on TP, and combine with Battle Voice. If you're just throwing everything at the boss (like I do) without a moment's rest on holding off on skills, most likely the other DPS are doing the same, so they're running low at the same time you are.

In 8 man boss fights and primals, Mage's Ballad will ALWAYS take priority over Army's Paean, which takes priority over Foe's Requiem. The trick is knowing when to pop them, and when to quickly switch on the fly. I've had moments where I had to go from Army's Paean instantly into Mage's Ballad. Luckily those moments are low, because it gets hectic when they pop up.

lmao this may b off topic but i did the roulette main quests the other day n ended up in the ultimate weapon dungeon.. anyways the 2nd tank was whinging almost the whole run how he wasnt allowed to tank cause couldnt get the hate off the other tank... even resorted to name callin n abuse over such a petty thing, then when dungeon finished he wanted commendations off every1 lolz

To be fair, we DPS give bad tanks an awful time, and don't often thank the ones who do their job properly.