So the "no BRD" shouts have begun, thanks Yoshi P

Wh-What? No BRD? Did people think BRD had sick deeps before the patch or something? BRD had decent deeps then and it still has decent deeps now, but that's never been the reason why BRDs were popular. They bring the most utility to the team, especially in Coil for T1 and T2. They also help a lot in T4... and T5 for that matter. I don't know why anyone would shout for "no BRD" unless theyre stacking MNK/BLM or something. Really weird if that's actually happening.

E: Oh, I guess they already had one BRD then. If that's the case, yeah, with more than one you build LB less quickly so having multiple classes harms your run rather than helps.

Just a thought, but maybe the team looking for members already had a BRD in their setup, and didn't want to stack? Or were lacking offensive LB and were looking for this?

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

but that don't change the fact that bard is a support class!

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Show one source where any SE developer specifically states "Bard is a support class". Bard isn't any more of a support than Summoner is, honestly

Like I said earlier, everyone is making assumptions on what Bard should be completely based around their experiences in 1.0/FFXI. Using the MP song for 30 seconds during a long boss fight =/= support class, I'm sorry. It's possible they could be changed into a support later on if they add a Ranger branch to Archer, but right now Bard is a DPS and there's nothing about it that points to support other than using the MP song when WHMs get low on MP. The speed song is pointless, TP song almost never get used, resistance song is okay but it's usefulness depends entirely on comp. The MP song is really the only one that matters, and like I said, 1 song =/= support class. The songs should be looked at like the group buff like Fairies have.

What they need to do is either release another support class and add bard and the new job to 8 man duty finder as a support role (because having only one option for a forced position is less than favorable) or make the support position a variable role in DF that will never put two in a party randomly. They should also increase the effectiveness of their songs letting them actually increase the party's damage.

As it stands now all the DDs are self sufficient so bard isn't needed for them. Are they good to have at key points in a battle, yes definitely. But they need to make the DD even stronger to make up for the position taken by the bard.

Anyone's who's shouting no bard does so because they already have one

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Originally Posted by Billie21

Just a thought, but maybe the team looking for members already had a BRD in their setup, and didn't want to stack? Or were lacking offensive LB and were looking for this?

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Originally Posted by Kletian

Anyone's who's shouting no bard does so because they already have one

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Too much logic for the internet....

I don't know about this No BRD crap. But I just did a Titan run today with 3 BRDs and it was perfectly fine in fact it was AWESOME. Got the win. Maybe they just don't want crap geared BRDs who don't know how to silence.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

i love how people want absolutly justify the fact that bard isn't a support role, indeed actually we don't have a role support in the duty finder.
why that? because bard is the only support class, means the party will have been like this:
-1 tank: warrior/paladin
-1 healer: scholar/white mage
-1 damage dealer: Monk/dragoon/summoner/black mage
-1 support: bard.

means a group will be forced to have a bard more important play bard will be like have a free ticket for join a group since you are actually the only support class. however, be sure that if they add more support class, they will add the role.

but that don't change the fact that bard is a support class!

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at that point party and dungeon composition will change and everything will become 5 man most likely.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

I don't know about this No BRD crap. But I just did a Titan run today with 3 BRDs and it was perfectly fine in fact it was AWESOME. Got the win. Maybe they just don't want crap geared BRDs who don't know how to silence.

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Bards are still amazing on movement heavy fights like Titan.

That "no BRD" shout was because the group already had at least one bard, so they wanted other classes with more DPS.

This is working as Yoshi intended. Bard still has one spot in every group (unless you overgear the encounter so much that you don't need the songs). He just doesn't want groups to stack all bard dps + melee LB.

And No Paladin shouts, but then you know these are the same people who'd wait a hour to get a speed run. Demand Relics for CM runs etc.

Anyone shouting No Paladin, either has one already, or they are idiots.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Anyone shouting No Paladin, either has one already, or they are idiots.

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As I said...

damn a lot of you guys have Lightning hairstyle

Holy hell. What is with these threads? I don't get it. I have literally never lost a single parse to any dps (single target). Are people that horrible at playing brd? It's very simple to play. Maybe people aren't hitting bloodletter/straight shot procs fast enough?

i still look for 2 brds in my teams even coil

they dont do there job any ways. lol

what is strange, is for example garuda, im BLM , most of the time best dps, parsing 310 DPS on mannequin, and yesterday, one brd was doing almost same overall damage on many kill and i had requiem on sister

while mnk/drg ie too much or need to step back cause of sister aoe and though we take maximum 1 melee

BRD is still a VERY VERY good DPS, a must in a team

stop beeing parano and crying for nothing

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Originally Posted by OptimalZedd

what is strange, is for example garuda, im BLM , most of the time best dps, parsing 310 DPS on mannequin, and yesterday, one brd was doing almost same overall damage on many kill and i had requiem on sister

while mnk/drg ie too much or need to step back cause of sister aoe and though we take maximum 1 melee

BRD is still a VERY VERY good DPS, a must in a team

stop beeing parano and crying for nothing

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the BRD put dots on the 2 sisters and garuda ,extra dmg + proc for bloodletter

Brds were and are the last dps MNK/BLM win the parse ,SMN/DRG come close (smn wins on multitarget ), brd last (Titan is the exception and thats why ppl called brd OP in 2.0, ppl wanted brds for titan ,and needed 1 o 2 for coil )

ppl dont want brd because they do AWESOME DPS because they certainly dont , they want brd for requiem (magic dmg boost) , mp regen song ,and -10% dmg (now -10% evasion)

brds are last on DPS thats for sure , mnks / blms top parsers now , smn win on multitarget , drgs got a boost in 2.1 but i dont think is enough

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Originally Posted by aivedoir

That "no BRD" shout was because the group already had at least one bard, so they wanted other classes with more DPS.

This is working as Yoshi intended. Bard still has one spot in every group (unless you overgear the encounter so much that you don't need the songs). He just doesn't want groups to stack all bard dps + melee LB.

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At the same time, becoming token is nothing to celebrate.

One day in the near future, Square-Enix will release expansions to FFXV 2.0. Contained within those expansions will be new class/jobs. Some of them will be DPS, others may be healer or tank types. And of course you'll see more support type classes. They will have the same "problem" as Bard. They will not top DPS charts but they'll help a party in ways that'll make them a desired addition.

If SE thought the change was needed, then it was needed. If the change is too great and costly then it'll continue to be adjusted. These things happen from time to time in patches. They get this data from in game testing from players just like you and me. They are reviewing data from top level end game raiders and see what is working as intended and make adjustments accordingly.

Do any of you honestly believe they are these sake soaked crazies at SE headquarters just making changes on a whim? In any case, you have but a few choices in the matter.

1. Adjust to the changes, and continue providing your party with the support the job offers.
2. Change classes to something you prefer more.
3. Quit the game in disgust and play something more agreeable to you.

Be cause I assure you, no amount or ranting and raving from within this forum will change how SE decides to produce this game.

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Originally Posted by KV-1

EDIT: Apparently SE did say they would be adding pure support classes in the future, but as of now there aren't any.

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In his most recent interview with famitsu he stated and its translated quote but

"Yoshida: Yes, we want to make sure that there is space in the party for at least two people of each role. 4-6 players is a number which has been used frequently in recent MMOs, but I stuck with the figure of eight people since back in the design stage for the aforementioned reasons. You can have two each of healer and tank and four DPS in the present situation. Once we add the hybrid role (which serves multiple roles), you'll be able to have two players from each role, for a total of 8 people."


The reason Bard isn't full support yet is because he wants to have at least 2 of each role. there are 2 tanks, 2 healers and several dps, but only 1 support (bard) but since we cant always wait for 2 bards for any 8 man content it seems logical to make it a DPS for now until the hybrid role is added.

It is my opinion bard will be more support as level range increases and more Hybrid classes are added. or it will be changed into more support or Hybrid as new roles are added. But since there is only 1 job that fits that description now it is listed as DPS.

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Originally Posted by Zedine

IThe reason Bard isn't full support yet is because he wants to have at least 2 of each role.

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Well that quote doesn't confirm Bard becoming a true support class, it just says the support role will be available eventually. For all we know SE's plan could be to just add totally new jobs as support roles and leave the current ones alone.

Regardless, I only foresee Bard becoming a *real* support if they add another branch job off of Archer that is purely DPS (like Ranger maybe), similar to Arcanist branching into Summoner/Scholor. Because it would not be received well if players logged on one day and found out their role has been changed and their only option was to level another class and re-gear.

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Originally Posted by KV-1

Well that quote doesn't confirm Bard becoming a true support class, it just says the support role will be available eventually. For all we know SE's plan could be to just add totally new jobs as support roles and leave the current ones alone.

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What Yoshida was talking about was adding hybrid classes, not "support". This all depends on how far he'll take the definition of "hybrid". It might be "one role with utility" the way SMN currently plays or "mediocre in everything" type. I'm praying it's the former and not the latter, otherwise we're going to have a true mess in our hands.

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Regardless, I only foresee Bard becoming a *real* support if they add another branch job off of Archer that is purely DPS (like Ranger maybe), similar to Arcanist branching into Summoner/Scholor.

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Adding "support" as a new role would be bad in the long run, as this is an MMORPG built on the holy trinity. Neither mesh well with each other, and never will without pissing off one of the parties involved.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

What Yoshida was talking about was...

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True on the hybrid statement. He wasn't clear on what that actually meant, so we can't even assume that means support role will be coming. Could just mean we will see more classes like Arcanist that 'branch off' into two separate different roles, which I would like to see personally.

I agree with you on support too. Support classes, while awesome in concept, tend to be more trouble than they are worth. Either they end up being too strong and trivialize content, or too weak and passed up for single-role classes.

Good example was Red Mage in FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Mags

Be cause I assure you, no amount or ranting and raving from within this forum will change how SE decides to produce this game.

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really, cause Im pretty sure the nerf came from other DPS bitching and whining about BRD being soooo OP, lol as if we were

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Originally Posted by MMONSTER

this is my point... is Yoshi retarded? did he not test the old damage factors before releasing the game, it wasn't working as intended before? or did he just give in to people bitching about BRD, if so, why didn't they all just do what youre telling me to do....play another job if you don't like the way its working

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lets me ask you back
are you retard?did you not test damage before whining?you keep say that bard nerd is very huge in fact less than 10%.melee dps sometimes need to abandon target to avoid aoe, caster need to cast spell but while bard can dps even while moving + range. consider that, bard dps is high,no combo,no cast,range what more bard need?100% attack buff?
bard always forgot about aoe avoid for other class which is a huge lose of dps while doing that?why?bard never experience that,stay at far,use some skill while moving,and never need think about combo

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Originally Posted by Kirosuu

lets me ask you back
are you retard?did you not test damage before whining?you keep say that bard nerd is very huge in fact less than 10%.melee dps sometimes need to abandon target to avoid aoe, caster need to cast spell but while bard can dps even while moving + range. consider that, bard dps is high,no combo,no cast,range what more bard need?100% attack buff?
bard always forgot about aoe avoid for other class which is a huge lose of dps while doing that?why?bard never experience that,stay at far,use some skill while moving,and never need think about combo

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are you retard? you keep saying that bard is nerd ....

I had to stop reading, grammar is giving me cancer, the irony of someone who hasn't mastered the English language asking about someone else's cognitive level lmao

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Originally Posted by KV-1

Good example was Red Mage in FFXI.

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*twitch*__

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Originally Posted by MMONSTER

yes it has been discussed, but I felt like voicing my opinion about the BRD nerf

1. you reduced blood for blood to 10%, but we still take 25% damage? its now blood for water ...

2. we already lose 20% damage while songs are playing, we continue to make us even weaker

3. RoD now evasion down......

4. Bloodletter AND Straight shot reduced to 130 potency

5. Our damn Relic weapon already had lower base dmg than all other relics

Did it ever occur to them how it feels like a complete waste of time to look at a job and see its abilities and traits and decide to choose it only to have them change the reasons you picked it in the first place

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Yet all progression content NEEDS a BRD, but classes like DRG, SMN, BLM, MNK are replaceable. Hmm...

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Originally Posted by MMONSTER

Did it ever occur to them how it feels like a complete waste of time to look at a job and see its abilities and traits and decide to choose it only to have them change the reasons you picked it in the first place

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You choose a bard because of blood for blood, internal release and RoD? 2 out of the 3 are not even bard abilities and the last was really limited to begin with.

Did Ifrit HM yesterday with 4 poorly geared bards and AK with 2 poorly geared bards.

Sky isn't falling.

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Originally Posted by MMONSTER

are you retard? you keep saying that bard is nerd ....

I had to stop reading, grammar is giving me cancer, the irony of someone who hasn't mastered the English language asking about someone else's cognitive level lmao

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ah sorry
look like the only way you to win argument in internet is via grammar
kudos mr english man

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Originally Posted by MMONSTER

really, cause Im pretty sure the nerf came from other DPS bitching and whining about BRD being soooo OP, lol as if we were

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Don't be so naive. While the input here is noted by SE, we are a small portion of the total player base. You honestly believe that SE caters to the “omg dis job so OP nerf plxplox” fourm posters? Really?

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

One bard is still required for the hardest content in the game.

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only one of each class should be required for any content, when you start stacking to much of the same, theres something wrong with it...

Maybe they already had one or two BRD in the party, duh.

ITT: Princess Syndrome.

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Originally Posted by Mags

Don't be so naive. While the input here is noted by SE, we are a small portion of the total player base. You honestly believe that SE caters to the “omg dis job so OP nerf plxplox” fourm posters? Really?

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It doesn't make sense to patch it, its not like they don't test these jobs out with all available cross class abilities, gear, etc.... so why the changes, it would be almost as dumb as saying, "PLD defense is too high, they are not taking enough damage when fighting enemies" seriously, they decided how much base dmg to give when they created the game, they decide n everything, if they are not testing it to start with and making necessary adjustments then am I to believe we are STILL in a beta testing phase.

simple solution

turn bard into this :
http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...utaru-Bard.jpg

and finally give us :
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...hra-Ranger.jpg

it's so simple, really.
even a game from 2001 was able to pull it off and we even got archer as a class already, so the skills are all there already!

Only bad players bring no bards. When a group doesn't need mage ballad, having foe requiem + double casters is extremely good for burn phases. When a group needs mage ballad... well, they need mage ballad.

The Rain of Death change was kind of a twitch reaction. Now it's completely worthless, but at least it means you save 200 TP to use on Heavy Shot instead of having to debuff Twintania/Dreads.