PVP, and how Gimped MELEE is.

Most of your concerns are idiotic because your group has no coordination or you are trying to bulldoze your way through. The only valid concerns here are: 1. Sleep duration and diminishing returns are too high. 2. Animations for melee take FAR too long. Healing potency should not be changed simply so you don't suck. Run with a SCH that uses Miasma II, and bam. -50% from cure debuff. Your concern about swiftcast sleep: BLM uses sleep. Healer uses Purify. Healer uses esuna/leeches on person locking down BLM. BLM then can not cast more sleep due to interrupt. Healer then removes any additional sleeps on party.

Sprint needs to be on a longer CD, or have a shorter duration, casters without it just go "zomg /dies!" because We. Cant. Cast. Your auto-attack will interrupt us without the use of PvP abilities, which lasts 10 seconds and is on a long CD. Do people have trouble killing me as a SCH? Damn right they do. Does my team have trouble killing other healers? They sure do, unless that healer is unskilled, or just has very poor gear.

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Originally Posted by Reeth

Perhaps if you zoomed your camera out you would do better?

No but in all seriousness, I'm not even going to try to PvP until they balance this stuff out. 20 second sleep is ridiculous.

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You don't even try, you just complain. That's pathetic.

As a drg, i see np. Its just the person it seems. Me, my monk and pls friend have np downing a team even with 2 blms and if out healer dies. Coordinate and learn to play ur class.

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Originally Posted by OdinTheTainted

But that is besides the point....NO ABILITIES regardless of outside solutions to "counter it" should last more than 5-7 seconds

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That's your opinion and you're welcome to it but i disagree. Considering a CC breaker is available and there is diminishing returns, there is nothing wrong with the normal effect durations.

Incoming more BLM nerfs. Like we need our class to be screwed with anymore. If you read the patch notes on abilities you'd know that if you level up which obviously wont happen on the first damn day of 2.1 release you'd know that you can and will be able to be more efficient with avoiding sleep.

Oh look, you can run away and move and attack because you're not being a caster. We CANT move when attacking. You have the advantage. Learn some strategy before complaining. Its DAY ONE. Jesus.

Oh look Dragoon has the Jump ability to catch a running opponent. Monks shoulder dash?? Gasp how did you catch me?! Shield Lob from a Paladin?? I never saw that coming! Oh JESUS a Warrior throwing a TOMAHAWK at me how is this fair!??

You all whined about the classes before and now looked what happened. Lets all whine some more and drive this game right into the ground like 1.0

You people can be so self centered sometimes.

Melee isn't really gimped at all. Had a few rather talented Paladins hassle me tonight, keeping me from healing rather well and effectively locking me down so their monk friends could rip me a new one.

Also had a few Pallys who i kited for the ENTIRE MATCH while my team killed off his healer, then both their dps.

Difference was just skill level and thought process tbh. It really isn't very hard at all to interrupt a healer. Swiftcast is on a 1min CD as it is. That is the ONLY guarantee we have of our (cast time) spells firing. Surecast/Equanimity (or whatever the F it's called) can both be negated with stuns.

Res not being allowed in arena? Pfft. One extra killing blow on the board!!! (dat weakness debuff :P ) A revived player is incredibly easy pickings unless the healer is on their game and/or the player in question knows appropriate times to accept the res.

Sprint can (lo and behold) also be negated! Do i have to list the movement debuffs that can be applied?'

Get in there, have a few more goes and learn from your errors. The content has only been out not even 10 hours.

SE did bad on this PVP implementation stuff, first why didnt they just make a pve stat and a pvp stat? I really dislike when a game has to nerf pve stats just to balance pvp when its so much more easier to make separate stats depending if ur in pvp or pve that way niether side play style gets nerfed for the others, would make sense wouldn't it?

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Originally Posted by Pavise

WoW has CC durations perfect and every MMO who wants to have a successful PvP metagame should follow the simple basic rules of MMO PvP.

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I cant stop laughing at this one. WoW has lower CC duration, but it has retardly amount of different CC schools that literally can stunlock you to death without DR even kicks in. It has worst PvP balance and didnt even follow the basic rules of MMO PvP. You must not playing PvP a lot of WoW, because WoW PvP community has been cursing at Blizzard devs over their PvP philosophy.

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Originally Posted by OdinTheTainted

QQ

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Your tears feed me and taste so good.

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Originally Posted by Kookie

SE did bad on this PVP implementation stuff, first why didnt they just make a pve stat and a pvp stat? I really dislike when a game has to nerf pve stats just to balance pvp when its so much more easier to make separate stats depending if ur in pvp or pve that way niether side play style gets nerfed for the others, would make sense wouldn't it?

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Blizzard did bad on this PVP implementation stuff, first why didnt they just make a pve stat and a pvp stat? I really dislike when a game has to nerf pve stats just to balance pvp when its so much more easier to make separate stats depending if ur in pvp or pve that way niether side play style gets nerfed for the others, would make sense wouldn't it

Go ahead and swap any mmo game company's name in there, and....

Welcome to MMO...

I played quite a few matches equally blm/drg maybe more than other but rank 5 now. CC appears to be problematic for melee at first but seeing all the resistance capabilities we'll have through gear/abilities I fear casters might be the underdog especially BLM, there's varies strategies to halt cc one of them was smn sends pet on blm or healer

smn > all casters at this time.

But there was times I was rolling with another drg and we raped 3 matches in a row.

You win some and loose some. But to be honest it's waaay to early to tell. Wait till people start ranking up and then we'll know for sure.

I agree, paladin is a waste of party space. 3v4 anyone?

I told people this game was going to be an awful, cancerous pile of garbage in PvP.

And oh look, mages are still crying that they should be on top, like in every MMO ever made.

Sorry friend. Like always, melee can GTFO, looks like xMP is here to stay.

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Originally Posted by Vanidin

People couldn't master all the strategies and variables in pvp within the first day, lost a match and are complaining about it? Mind = blown.

Disclaimer: I haven't tried the PVP and have no desire to. Haven't seen an mmo yet whose pvp wasn't filled with whiners and griefers.

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There's not much strategy to formulate as melee when your options are "get a pocket cleanser or die."

Also "Fetter Wand" doesn't work. Do not take it at all.

No one honestly saw this problem before it was even implemented?

I did, and that's why I had low expectations, which quite frankly have been met.

Monk animations take way too long when chacing a player.
Also it seems that when players use 'Sprint' they sometimes warp.
Also 30+ should get exp by doing pvp.

People couldn't master all the strategies and variables in pvp within the first day, lost a match and are complaining about it? Mind = blown.

Disclaimer: I haven't tried the PVP and have no desire to. Haven't seen an mmo yet whose pvp wasn't filled with whiners and griefers.

As a long time FFXI player, if there was one thing that I thought SE would get right it would be the PVP lol. :-P

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Originally Posted by Canddi

As a long time FFXI player, if there was one thing that I thought SE would get right it would be the PVP lol. :-P

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Well as Yoshi yoshi said that they have little pvp capable devs on the team and sadly it shows - a lot. It makes me wonder if this was actually tested properly at all.

As a monk who has done 45 matches today. L2p. Fist of Wind = you're in range all the time to hit your target.
I have not much of an issue staying on target unless I'm CC'd, even then the healer can cleanse it.
Also Smelling Salts does not work in PVP, stop spreading that around.
Further more, Fetter Ward works. You have to use it BEFORE you get CC'd, literally like 1 or 2 seconds prior.
If you see a WHM/BLM looking at you after they've Swiftcasted, expect Sleep to come. Blow Fetter Ward, gg they wasted Swiftcast. Paladin chasing you? Expect stuns out the ass. It's not hard, just pay attention.

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Originally Posted by AldricBranchais

As a monk who has done 45 matches today. L2p. Fist of Wind = you're in range all the time to hit your target.
I have not much of an issue staying on target unless I'm CC'd, even then the healer can cleanse it.
Also Smelling Salts does not work in PVP, stop spreading that around.
Further more, Fetter Ward works. You have to use it BEFORE you get CC'd, literally like 1 or 2 seconds prior.
If you see a WHM/BLM looking at you after they've Swiftcasted, expect Sleep to come. Blow Fetter Ward, gg they wasted Swiftcast. Paladin chasing you? Expect stuns out the ass. It's not hard, just pay attention.

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shhh dont tell them how to play!!.. i wanna farm them for AP and pvp rank!
:p

unless PVP is it own system its going to fail, all they changed from PVE is your def they call it morale now. >.>

It's hard for mages to kill people who are constantly on the move and hiding behind those silly fences too. This isn't a melee-specific issue. So if you are gimped because of this, then so are we.

The real problem I think is just the arena format itself. The circular and small battlefield with barriers you can hide behind adds to this. I think PvP would be a lot more fun in a different format overall. Something along the lines of a battleground from WoW, where you have a larger area with specific objectives that encourage players to stand and fight, instead of playing hide and seek.

Been through 48 fights now in pre mades. I am DRG we have a BLM, WHM, PLD or WAR. We were on a hot streak for some time think we got to about 19 wins in a row with nobody making us blink an eye.

CC and burst

Then we started to go against comps that were played well winning some and losing some. It became very apparent how behind DRG is in PvP because of our lack of any utility. The 3 second stun hurts my team because it DRs the tank's better stun. The 20 second slow is a waist of a GCD (slow not weight). I tried to find ways to help my team outside of hitting things with my poke poke stick and there is nothing.

Hit a wall against a BLM, SCH, SMN, WAR team. Couldn't do a thing. The comp has utility on every job. Did not matter who we picked or what we did the others had it covered with slows, sleeps, binds, and heals up the ying yang.

It was not a matter of L2P we just straight up couldn't touch the comp. We managed to get 1 of them down almost every fight but it didn't matter. We were too far behind and had nothing to counter with because I was a DRG.

Not all jobs are created equally but I am worried that in order to be able to play at a competitive level in this game's PvP DRG is out of the question.

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Originally Posted by Rubieus

I agree, paladin is a waste of party space. 3v4 anyone?

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Funny considering I've ended up doing more damage that a lot of my party members. Granted, that's not because PLD is strong... it's just because those people were VERY bad. Gotta love the BRD that can only manage 177 DMG. YAY!

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Originally Posted by Dale

It's hard for mages to kill people who are constantly on the move and hiding behind those silly fences too. This isn't a melee-specific issue. So if you are gimped because of this, then so are we.

The real problem I think is just the arena format itself. The circular and small battlefield with barriers you can hide behind adds to this. I think PvP would be a lot more fun in a different format overall. Something along the lines of a battleground from WoW, where you have a larger area with specific objectives that encourage players to stand and fight, instead of playing hide and seek.

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This. I think the Circle with 2 fences is really stupid and pretty much a waste of resources. They spent all that time making pvp and they couldnt design a better arena? I like the PvP and I am happy its here, but would of preferred a better map/arena or atleast 2 maps or some kind of map rotation.

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Originally Posted by Dale

The real problem I think is just the arena format itself. The circular and small battlefield with barriers you can hide behind adds to this. I think PvP would be a lot more fun in a different format overall. Something along the lines of a battleground from WoW, where you have a larger area with specific objectives that encourage players to stand and fight, instead of playing hide and seek.

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I never understand the fascination or the logic where hiding behind a small tree will stop a fireball or an arrow that probably can go straight through solid steel. I realize gameplay trumps 'realism', but is hide and seek really the important to implement?

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

shhh dont tell them how to play!!.. i wanna farm them for AP and pvp rank!
:p

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Let me tell ya'... back to back 520 crits with Bootshine is... hilarious. They just crumble.

with the movement speed along with the 2.5 sec gcd pvp will probably never work in this game, just a teaser until eso comes out for me...

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Originally Posted by Aysha_Alese

with the movement speed along with the 2.5 sec gcd pvp will probably never work in this game, just a teaser until eso comes out for me...

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Here's what ya do! You have a teammate that can bind or heavy? Have them do that to the priority target! It's almost as if teamwork helps you out greatly. Need to confirm later. Also loleso.

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Originally Posted by Verdan

Long CC has always been a point of contention in pvp. In an arena setting, long CC is really rough. I won't be surprised if they cut it down.

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This. Small arena settings are where spike damage and CC are king. Sleep should have a baseline reduced duration when the target is another player.

I've played almost 15 matches today as SMN (losing quite a few, but still), but Miasma has got to be one of the best spells in PVP. A DoT, weight, AND a reduction in healing capacity.

I'm owning in pvp as Dragoon. My first match was a disaster cause I had no idea what I was doing. After that, it was game on.

I asume all melee start screaming nerf again?

i played 5 matches and had 1 teammate out of the 5 games that could heavy, instead they are too worried about keeping the other team asleep with op sleep for 20 sec. i have played a match that i was asleep the whole entire match until all 3 of my teammates were dead. 20 sec, 16 sec, etc. you are acting like this is the first ever mmo that i have ever did pvp in. the wrong jobs have the wrong actions, plain and simple. i have played alot of mmo's that i absolutley hate, but i never thought the pvp in it felt as broken as it does in this game. dont get me wrong i love this game and the final fantasy series as a whole, but anyone that thinks the pvp doesnt have problems is an absolute idiot. yes i realize it has only been one day, but how will the devs know what needs to be fixed if people dont speak their minds on here. i have a small amount of hope that one of them will read my thread and possibly impliment something into it to correct even one thing on my list to make it better.

and to add to my list, there should be a 15-20 min timer, and it should just be the team with the most kills at the end wins. you die once and its over, who thought of that dumb idea? not being able to get more than 4 kills in an entire match either??? why not 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, or 3 vs 3?

pop purify if ccd, fetter ward after, or fetter ward while engaging. sprint and then enlive or invigorate, pb > aotd silence if needed when focusing, use one ilm punch to pop off pretty much any buff, and losing protect hurts quite a bit.. Well at least monk seems good, dragoon can do lots of jumps and maneuvering but I dont see them being on the level monk is, utility wise anyhow, dragoons can burst a healer down a bit quicker if the monk isnt already GL3.

Dragoon is the better burster in PvP, but monk offers far far more utility. Melee isnt bad in pvp, but the lower rank you are the worse it feels. As I break higher in the ranks the pvp skills really save me.

Halfway to 100 matches yay.

It's not as horrific to play as I suspected, but I'm kind of surprised they went with an arena format to start with. Tight play exposes faults and issues far quicker than more erratic larger scale 'world' pvp in a battleground situation, not to mention that it's more forgiving and hence casual friendly to boot.

I'm not sure where this 20 second sleep thing is coming from, get the timing right and you can potentially remove someone from play for a smidge over 50 seconds, set the pld on them afterwards and that's another 10 seconds. Pretty crazy if you ask me!

So I tried out smelling salts..and you know it isn't enabled in pvp right?
So for all you who claimed it "works", it doesn't.

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