Normal Mode & Hard Mode Dungeons?!

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Originally Posted by RedFox

We need some sort of tension in this game. Commanding a group of eight or less is too easy. There is way to much room for mistakes and it should be less.

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This statement is contradictory. Wouldn't more room for mistakes create more tension?

Some people in the thread are arguing that smaller parties make content easier and larger parties = harder. IMO the size of the party bears no correlation to difficulty, neither does it have to.

Surely with a party of 4 or 8 there are less variables and as such it is easier to tailor the whole dungeon/raid experience, as such making more challenging content is a LOT easier when designed for small parties, surely?

I'm not arguing that XIV should ONLY have 8 man max. I'd love to see larger alliance content but people need to realise that theres no correlation between party size and difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Sorry Renshi, but you have to bet your account.

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I made the rules. get in or get out =)

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Originally Posted by Joeking

Normal Mode & Hard mode....!?!?!

This is FFXIV, the only acceptable thing is Easy Mode.

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get out of here not everyone who play this game is Casual am a Hardcore/casual player but i like something fun and hard but not super hard that would take me month to get also lol.

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Originally Posted by CanteJondo

Some people in the thread are arguing that smaller parties make content easier and larger parties = harder. IMO the size of the party bears no correlation to difficulty, neither does it have to.

Surely with a party of 4 or 8 there are less variables and as such it is easier to tailor the whole dungeon/raid experience, as such making more challenging content is a LOT easier when designed for small parties, surely?

I'm not arguing that XIV should ONLY have 8 man max. I'd love to see larger alliance content but people need to realise that theres no correlation between party size and difficulty.

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Well there is such a thing as the "glass ceiling" effect. Smaller groups of players have a more average statistical difficulty level because they are not "so weak" or "so strong" in their effectiveness. While a larger party creates a bigger spike on both ends of the spectrum.

Thus if you have massive alliances like WoW developers tend to go wild because they expect that only the best of the best, in a the all-star best will be playing it.

Though it's very harsh thinking, and reason WoW is...how shall we say it... a world of a-tards.

We do need some of that content for the l33t of l33t, but at this point we shouldn't consider catering to that type of audience as of yet...as frankly it's a "reboot", not a "continuation".

I want a hard, a normal, and a Don't let the bad monsters hurt me mommy difficulty setting. Of course the only reward for don't let the bad monsters hurt me mommy mode would be seeing the content and a npc that pops and says "thanks for the effort, but your princess is in another castle"

Remember when Grand Companies were coming out soon?

I think using the levequest difficulty settings for the dungeons is a good idea. Allows the level 30 dungeons to be scaled up for higher level players, and the level 50 dungeons to be scaled up as the level cap increases.

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Originally Posted by Richard

If "raids" consist of 8 man max parties this game will die faster than it is already. We can all understand they are catering to a casual playerbase here but limiting the interaction between whole linkshells is really piss poor. I want to raid with 15 or 16 of my linkshell friends not have to pick and choose each time I want to run a dungeon.

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I am hoping for a dynamis like area with a max of 64 people in alliances.

GIMMIE SOME HARD STUFF!!!

THIS GAME MAKES ME FALL ASLEEP!!

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

Why not just make it all hard-mode? Everyone is saying they want challenging content, so why even bother with easy-mode?

I think we all know what the outcome would be though. Fact is, people say they want one thing but mean another.

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Exactly, just make it all Hard Mode IMO.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

15-man chaotic zerg fests? No, thanks. Behests are actually fun now that party sizes are smaller.

I'm glad that WoW stopped focusing on gigantic raids. Back in the 40-man days, it was a given that at least 5 people were asleep at the wheel. When it changed to 10/25 mans, 25-man raids were still easier than 10-mans. The difficulty may have been tweaked, but the truth is that you can still hide inside a 25-man group. In a 10-man raid, every person has to pull their weight.

I'd rather have 4-man and 8-man content.

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really? behests are fun now? they are not any harder then they where before, and now they net less rewards. 8 people does not a raid make. Im sure they could design 16 man content that isnt a zerg fest and dub it raid content, if you dont want to be a part of it then stick with the 8 man dungeon.

There should only be one mode, Rediculous, there should never be an easy mode, it should all be extremely difficult and rely on heavy team tactics instead of mindless headbutting.

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Originally Posted by Griss

I want a a hard, a normal, and a Don't let the bad monsters hurt me mommy difficulty setting. Of course the only reward for don't let the bad monsters hurt me mommy mode would be seeing the content and a npc that pops and says "thanks for the effort, but your princess is in another castle"

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/priceless

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Originally Posted by Chezen

/priceless

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that made me LOL so hard too man they should put that in the game i would play that don't let the bad monsters hurt me mommy mode every time to see the thanks for the effort, but your princess is in another castle

R30 Dungeon = R50 Light Party Dungeon

You know I hear people saying let's make it all hard-mode. While I agree that everything should be hard, I don't think many people are looking at the larger picture. Again SE is here to make money and i'm pretty sure they don't want to stick with an est. 30k subscribers for the rest of this games life.

While i'm a hardcore-raider/player I will always play things on hard but not everyone is hardcore and there needs to be options. Adding difficulty for dungeons on multiple levels would separate the different types of players from each other. Diversity is a good thing! Players who can accomplish a difficult task should be rewarded accordingly while players who take the easier route because they don't have as much gear/skill/time should be rewarded as well. Players that strive to be the best should get the best. No players should get shafted.

If you think everyone is a hardcore player then you are blind. Like I said i'm a hardcore player but save just as much room for real life so when I get into the game I personally want to have something to do. SP parties/Crafting is not a form of entertainment for me.

Remember when COP first came out and we had the level cap. I don't know about anyone else but when I finished that story line it was refreshing and I felt great about myself. That is the type of accomplishment I would like. It was fun, frustrating, and exciting all in one.

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Originally Posted by Rau

R30 Dungeon = R50 Light Party Dungeon

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Say What? lol Don't know if you are serious or not.

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Originally Posted by RedFox

You know I hear people saying let's make it all hard-mode. While I agree that everything should be hard, I don't think many people are looking at the larger picture. Again SE is here to make money and i'm pretty sure they don't want to stick with an est. 30k subscribers for the rest of this games life.

While i'm a hardcore-raider/player I will always play things on hard but not everyone is hardcore and there needs to be options. Adding difficulty for dungeons on multiple levels would separate the different types of players from each other. Diversity is a good thing! Players who can accomplish a difficult task should be rewarded accordingly while players who take the easier route because they don't have as much gear/skill/time should be rewarded as well. Players that strive to be the best should get the best. No players should get shafted.

If you think everyone is a hardcore player then you are blind. Like I said i'm a hardcore player but save just as much room for real life so when I get into the game I personally want to have something to do. SP parties/Crafting is not a form of entertainment for me.

Remember when COP first came out and we had the level cap. I don't know about anyone else but when I finished that story line it was refreshing and I felt great about myself. That is the type of accomplishment I would like. It was fun, frustrating, and exciting all in one.

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The best part about CoP was that it was hard. There was no easy mode. People had to know their role and it required cooperation.

My comment about making everything hard was half-sarcastic. While I would love to see everything as 1 set difficulty it will never happen, as long as SE's approach remains casual.

I was just venting because whenever the topic of giving us hardcore content comes up, casual players like to chime in with "don't make it time consuming, make it hard." But in reality many don't want hard content, even though they say they do. If they did, no one would be asking for easy/hard-mode.

I would love to see a fair, even playing field for everyone. A game that requires the same amount of skill from any player. But as this is a casual game, I just don't see it happening.

Hardcore player = can play mmos for an extensive time per week.
Casual Player= A player who has limited play time due to real life.

Good player = a player who can accomplish difficult task and formulate strategies.
Bad player = a player who is unable to perform difficult task... aka they suck at the game.

People need to realize this above... CASUAL =/= EASY HARDCORE =/= DIFFICULT

the whole you are alienating people for difficulty.. I am sorry but that is the whole problem with games now days. TOO many people growing up in the pokemon generation.

I say segregate all those people who refuse to learn the game and learn to play. Those people are not casual they are crappy players.

Reality check... Your asking people to learn to play at your level. I've said it before and I will say it again. Not everyone is going to be good. So yes there will be bad players and good players alike. That is the reality of all mmos. What I also said was no one should get shafted and that there should be options for all players.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

The best part about CoP was that it was hard. There was no easy mode. People had to know their role and it required cooperation.

My comment about making everything hard was half-sarcastic. While I would love to see everything as 1 set difficulty it will never happen, as long as SE's approach remains casual.

I was just venting because whenever the topic of giving us hardcore content comes up, casual players like to chime in with "don't make it time consuming, make it hard." But in reality many don't want hard content, even though they say they do. If they did, no one would be asking for easy/hard-mode.

I would love to see a fair, even playing field for everyone. A game that requires the same amount of skill from any player. But as this is a casual game, I just don't see it happening.

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Likewise but that won't happen. Casuals, hardcore, good, bad players.... It doesn't matter to me as long as the servers are full.

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Originally Posted by RedFox

Likewise but that won't happen. Casuals, hardcore, good, bad players.... It doesn't matter to me as long as the servers are full.

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I don't want the servers to be full until the servers can handle the servers being full LOL

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Hardcore player = can play mmos for an extensive time per week.
Casual Player= A player who has limited play time due to real life.

Good player = a player who can accomplish difficult task and formulate strategies.
Bad player = a player who is unable to perform difficult task... aka they suck at the game.

People need to realize this above... CASUAL =/= EASY HARDCORE =/= DIFFICULT

the whole you are alienating people for difficulty.. I am sorry but that is the whole problem with games now days. TOO many people growing up in the pokemon generation.

I say segregate all those people who refuse to learn the game and learn to play. Those people are not casual they are crappy players.

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Fully agree with this, just because you are casual does not mean you cant do difficult content

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Originally Posted by Firon

that made me LOL so hard too man they should put that in the game i would play that don't let the bad monsters hurt me mommy mode every time to see the thanks for the effort, but your princess is in another castle

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Lol. Yes, and I laughed, but in more seriousness, I'm reminded of a time when people played only for the sake of getting to the next level, or just to say they did it. In FFVIII, the only thing you got for defeating Omega Weapon was a certificate. No cool weapon, no real reward.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

Fully agree with this, just because you are casual does not mean you cant do difficult content

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Unless of course it's time consuming.

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Originally Posted by RedFox

Unless of course it's time consuming.

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Which hopefully they dont get to deep into, 2 hours for a raid should be max IMO, I really hated spending 6 hours in MC or BWL back in the day didn't make anything harder just longer, I loath hours of clearing trash.

Why is it that "Easy-Mode" is always used as if it's a bad thing? Content that is easy for one, doesn't necessarily have to be easy for another. I, for one. sucked at soloing in Final Fantasy XI. I had to ask for help with my Maat fights to unlock the 70~75 Level range. Also, i couldn't defeat a single Level 20 Avatar for my Summoner. Not even Titan (which was labeled as the easiest avatar fights of all). Putting it mildly, it was frustrating...

So, why can't the Final Fantasy XIV have content with mixed difficulties? Because the game is already in "Easy-Mode" and "everybody" wants "Hard-Mode" content?

When i try to solo my Guild Leve's, i would select the "Solo"-difficulty by default. That way i'm confident that i can finish the Guild leve, claim my reward and have fun while doing it. That's what matters to a player like me.

SE will eventually add more difficult content like HNM's when the community asks for it. Just don't rule out the players who are not as good as the majority of the good players.

Because of this, i'm all in favor for multiple difficulties (like the Guild leve's) for Dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

Which hopefully they dont get to deep into, 2 hours for a raid should be max IMO, I really hated spending 6 hours in MC or BWL back in the day didn't make anything harder just longer, I loath hours of clearing trash.

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Yeah I feel you. The one thing I hated doing in FF11 was doing 24 hour NM's with 1-3 hour random window. Worst thing ever. Nothing like getting called up by my Japanese buddy overseas yelling at me to be on in the middle of the night. It was a choice that I took. But it sure sucked and that is one of the reasons why I left 11. Was tired of being hardcore in that game.

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Originally Posted by Aldora

Why is it that "Easy-Mode" is always used as if it's a bad thing? Content that is easy for one, doesn't necessarily have to be easy for another. I, for one. sucked at soloing in Final Fantasy XI. I had to ask for help with my Maat fights to unlock the 70~75 Level range. Also, i couldn't defeat a single Level 20 Avatar for my Summoner. Not even Titan (which was labeled as the easiest avatar fights of all). Putting it mildly, it was frustrating...

So, why can't the Final Fantasy XIV have content with mixed difficulties? Because the game is already in "Easy-Mode" and "everybody" wants "Hard-Mode" content?

When i try to solo my Guild Leve's, i would select the "Solo"-difficulty by default. That way i'm confident that i can finish the Guild leve, claim my reward and have fun while doing it. That's what matters to a player like me.

SE will eventually add more difficult content like HNM's when the community asks for it. Just don't rule out the players who are not as good as the majority of the good players.

Because of this, i'm all in favor for multiple difficulties (like the Guild leve's) for Dungeons.

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Thank You! Finally someone understands lol. I mean having something not as difficult is not going to hurt someone who is doing something more difficult.

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Originally Posted by RedFox

I mean having something not as difficult is not going to hurt someone who is doing something more difficult.

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Unless the rewards are the same.

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Originally Posted by Shyd

Unless the rewards are the same.

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Guess that would be a dumb move on SE's part then. But i'm sure they wouldn't do that... or would they ;P

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Originally Posted by Aldora

When i try to solo my Guild Leve's, i would select the "Solo"-difficulty by default. That way i'm confident that i can finish the Guild leve, claim my reward and have fun while doing it. That's what matters to a player like me.

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I do the opposite. I take as many stars as I think I'll be able to do, and if I guess wrong, lower the difficulty when I die. Again, I'm also in favor of multiple difficulty settings.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

The best part about CoP was that it was hard. There was no easy mode. People had to know their role and it required cooperation.

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Correction, it required you having the "right" jobs leveled or you were SOL, which past promivyon meant a ninja tank, a whm and a smn, with a guest appearance made by DRK during the Diabolos fight.

On the topic, I agree that there should be normal and hard mode versions of each encounter. I'd appreciate an Ulduar approach (doing certain things during the encounter to trigger the hard mode) rather than the Trial of the Crusader/Icecrown Citadel approach (turn a knob and all bosses are in hard mode).

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Correction, it required you having the "right" jobs leveled or you were SOL, which past promivyon meant a ninja tank, a whm and a smn, with a guest appearance made by DRK during the Diabolos fight.

On the topic, I agree that there should be normal and hard mode versions of each encounter. I'd appreciate an Ulduar approach (doing certain things during the encounter to trigger the hard mode) rather than the Trial of the Crusader/Icecrown Citadel approach (turn a knob and all bosses are in hard mode).

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Duelle you are wrong my ls ran CoP with any job they leveled no one was required to lvl any job beat all the missions w/o smn's or any of that other stuff we had drg's mnks and all of the above you only put your self in that position saying only certain jobs was required cause you prob never tried to run the mission your self i ran 45+ members thru cop you sir are wrong. I tanked every CoP mission on PLD btw

Edit: Also my ls was called Immortal Gods we were featured on Ala before as being an ls who helped many players prep people for endgame.

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Originally Posted by Aldora

Why is it that "Easy-Mode" is always used as if it's a bad thing? Content that is easy for one, doesn't necessarily have to be easy for another. I, for one. sucked at soloing in Final Fantasy XI. I had to ask for help with my Maat fights to unlock the 70~75 Level range. Also, i couldn't defeat a single Level 20 Avatar for my Summoner. Not even Titan (which was labeled as the easiest avatar fights of all). Putting it mildly, it was frustrating...

So, why can't the Final Fantasy XIV have content with mixed difficulties? Because the game is already in "Easy-Mode" and "everybody" wants "Hard-Mode" content?

When i try to solo my Guild Leve's, i would select the "Solo"-difficulty by default. That way i'm confident that i can finish the Guild leve, claim my reward and have fun while doing it. That's what matters to a player like me.

SE will eventually add more difficult content like HNM's when the community asks for it. Just don't rule out the players who are not as good as the majority of the good players.

Because of this, i'm all in favor for multiple difficulties (like the Guild leve's) for Dungeons.

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This is, more or less, what else I wanted say earlier, but I had to go suddenly.

I support people getting to play however they want to. Difficult, easy, hardcore, casual... when it comes to a game I don't think there is any right or wrong to how you enjoy them.

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Originally Posted by Shyd

Unless the rewards are the same.

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And this is kinda why I made my earlier comment. While it's fine if they make the rewards equal to the effort, for me the point is the self-pride of beating something difficult.

Seriously We already have a good system about difficulty we just need battle adjustments and everything will look more clear after that.
It isn't WOW. We just need a good planned content with 5 stars and each star add some more % to get rare drops and that's all.

should just be one skill level for dungeons. level scaleing also.

No. I do not agree at all with the OP. If anything, maybe have seperate dungeons. And just have some dungeons that are a decent challenge, some that are hard, and some that are /ragequit hard. Its hard to have any fascination or awe or "legendary" feats about Absolute Virtue, if he has an easy mode. So I am not against there being normal, hard , and elite dificulty dungeons, but I prefer then to be seperate events.

Since FFXIV untill now is prolly, the most easy thing that has been made in MMOs history, SE should give us only new:

OMFGHARDCORE dungeons instances HNMs.....