New DF Punishment Timer

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12-17-2013, 02:03 AM
Xieveral

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaFlare

Can we kick people for being bad? Or is that too mean and against the rule? I can't remember how many times I was in a DF group where everyone was perfect except for that one dps who kept on dying preventing the group from killing heart.

http://i.imgur.com/CNtUkmG.png

Unless you can persuade every other member to use theirs (if they haven't already) I feel this defeats the purpose of even having the option. Low-level dungeons and AV especially, there's a ton of people that have no business queuing as tanks or healers but when one bad player leaves another takes their place until the rest of the party leaves in frustration.
12-17-2013, 02:45 AM
Nosiahk

30 minutes sound perfectly fine. Don't know why players would be in disagreement about these timers unless they're one of "those" that just exit because things didn't work out for them. Well, I shouldn't say any more since I don't even use DF much.
12-17-2013, 02:59 AM
Positron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doo

So you're basically stuck in a terrible group with no one willing to take the 30 minute hit till 2.15 where the party can vote to give up. How many players need to approve of this vote to give up? How many yes vote will be needed? What if the group is terrible and there's not enough votes?

Well, I guess you're just stuck there... if only there were a member in the group who weren't terrible to teach the group how to do better!
12-17-2013, 03:00 AM
KyteStones

Quote:

Originally Posted by flamds1

There's always shouting for groups in revenant's. They didn't delete that option. DF is a gamble not a sure thing.

With the ridiculous requirements/elitists/people who are worse than the DF who refuse to take advice and end of wiping the group due to arrogance, you're method isn't fool proof. Also, my OP isn't so much a rant/QQ. I was looking for individual and independent thoughts on the subject matter which some of you have contributed, some have went off me.
12-17-2013, 03:01 AM
Doo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Positron

Well, I guess you're just stuck there... if only there were a member in the group who weren't terrible to teach the group how to do better!

You can teach all you want but you can't play for them. All that teaching won't make them able to dodge landslide and plumes. Heck I even made a macro for when plumes are about to go off. You'll be lucky if the player doesn't give you an attitude for trying to help them most of the time.

Maybe you like to babysit players, carry them, and take hours of your time trying to teach them simple mechanics but not everyone enjoys that. I enjoy it to a certain point but by the time the guy gets hit by like the 10th landslide, it wears on you.

I think a lot of players here like saying things that sound nice and all but in reality they wouldn't be able to take it themselves.
12-17-2013, 03:10 AM
Jamez82

People have different ideas of what a bad player or just plain bad group is.
For some it's consistently dying to avoidable things or forgetting to use a skill that got people killed a few times and I can understand that.
However, for those that believe a bad player is wiping once halfway through a dungeon because your finger missed a key once, or you don't do exactly what the group know it all says while still finishing content with no problem. I'm talking about the elitists who see themselves flawless and expect the same of everyone else or "**** this" and leave. Those who's only life revolves around a video game who either don't or can't put that same attitude towards life off of the monitor... well, people like that are why I'm happy for the change.
12-17-2013, 03:16 AM
AmandaHuggenkiss

Personally, I think 30 min is far too short.
Make it an hour, and maybe people will learn to work together.
12-17-2013, 03:18 AM
Curagaja

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmandaHuggenkiss

Personally, I think 30 min is far too short.
Make it an hour, and maybe people will learn to work together.

If it were an hour, then you would see more people AFKing until they are kicked to avoid the hour penalty. This hurts the legitimate players more than it would hurt those who would otherwise quit.
12-17-2013, 03:21 AM
Aaron_T

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyteStones

http://i.imgur.com/Frtld8u.png

So 30 minutes now as punishment for leaving an instance. Bad group/failgroup/

Discuss.

Fail group, bad group. I think someone needs a 30 minute nap.
You can kick people for harassment now and dc. If your reason for leaving is because the group is
quote "Fail" or "Bad" (which are the same thing) Then enjoy your 30 minutes.
12-17-2013, 03:30 AM
SummerSkye

If it's really bad, just turn your computer off and "dc"....
12-17-2013, 03:36 AM
Doo

Quote:

Originally Posted by SummerSkye

If it's really bad, just turn your computer off and "dc"....

Can you vote to kick someone that is dc out?
12-17-2013, 03:46 AM
DSN

Does the timer actually start now and keep running if I close the duty finder? Messing with this while the system is still broken and bugged is stupid, fix it first.
12-17-2013, 03:47 AM
SummerSkye

I don't know...but I am guilty of "disconnecting" in this manner on an inept group or two and not suffering the penalty when i log back in.
12-17-2013, 04:05 AM
Amyas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Positron

Well, I guess you're just stuck there... if only there were a member in the group who weren't terrible to teach the group how to do better!

Trust me, most bad players using DF at 50 don't want to be 'taught'. I've been cussed at enough by baddies (looking at you blackmages that only cast bliz 3) when I give hints or just say the correct rotation, then you have the silent sallies that continue being bad and never say a word. I normally don't leave unless there is an emergency, but I've had my times where a group would wipe over and over at a boss (line. line. LINE. HEALER YOU HAVE A PURPLE LINE ON YOU!!!! *fifthwipe*) and I'd just break and leave. (granted this hasn't happened in a while, save for occasional groups in progress stuck at either the wall or last boss in AK)

30 min lockout hurts, but hey, I guess if I get a crappy or abusive group I can always alt-tab and watch youtube or w/e until someone else rage quits first...
12-17-2013, 04:14 AM
Doo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amyas

30 min lockout hurts, but hey, I guess if I get a crappy or abusive group I can always alt-tab and watch youtube or w/e until someone else rage quits first...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pr0c3ss0r

If the group can't carry 1~2 player with that kind of gear, they are really bad and should start to check about theyself first.

You're just a baddie dude!
12-17-2013, 04:33 AM
Orophin

Now they just need to place a lockout on people that spam for In Progress only groups.
12-17-2013, 05:23 AM
Zumi

Usually if you are vote kicked out in a mmo you do not get the penalty timer because in a way you were wronged by getting kicked out. I assume it would be the same for FFXIV.
12-17-2013, 05:40 AM
altered_juice

*the vote penalty does not apply when vote dismiss is used

-pugs in ifrit extreme

"no black mage or summoner? alright im just gonna pull the boss repeatedly until you guys get annoyed and kick me out".
12-17-2013, 05:50 AM
MonsieurKay

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyteStones

http://i.imgur.com/Frtld8u.png
Bad group/failgroup/harassing members (with no vote kick option available, lets say its been used up for the day with its limited use)

Easy. Point out their every mistake and wait until they insult you and kick for Harasment :)
12-17-2013, 05:59 AM
flamds1

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsieurKay

Easy. Point out their every mistake and wait until they insult you and kick for Harasment :)

and hope the rest of the group hasn't tired of you and decided to kick you instead for the same.
12-17-2013, 06:03 AM
AmandaHuggenkiss

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orophin

Now they just need to place a lockout on people that spam for In Progress only groups.

Yes, please.
12-17-2013, 06:11 AM
Kuwagami

Fix the 90k error and major lag ssues resulting in being kicked from dungeons and I'll find it fair. Also prevent this penalty to apply when you get DCed in a dungeon and get kicked by party leader...
12-17-2013, 06:12 AM
Faelandaea

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyteStones

http://i.imgur.com/Frtld8u.png

So 30 minutes now as punishment for leaving an instance. Bad group/failgroup/harassing members (with no vote kick option available, lets say its been used up for the day with its limited use) Griefing/AFK-ing (i know they will be kicked in 10 minutes but there are way around this you all know). And the player is punished for 30 minutes.

I think 15 minutes was bad enough.

Discuss.

FFXIV players have it lucky. In every other MMO I play, the penalty is an hour. Examples: Rift, Star Trek Online, Neverwinter . . . there are a few others but those are the ones I was on most recently before coming to FFXIV and falling completely in love with this game.

So I would still count yourselves lucky it's only 30 minutes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Fix the 90k error and major lag ssues resulting in being kicked from dungeons and I'll find it fair. Also prevent this penalty to apply when you get DCed in a dungeon and get kicked by party leader...

As far as being penalized for being kicked, they did already. Read the patch notes. They put it in bright red letters that being kicked does not result in a timer. As for DC - that's why gamers try to make sure they have a good ISP. From an Admin viewpoint I can see where I would consider someone saying "Oh this group isn't to my perfect liking. I'll get around the timer by "disconnecting" and i can just get right back into the game in a few minutes once they've "kicked" me.

That's one problem in some of the games I mentioned above . . . people "disconnect" to get around the timers. I know . . . I've done it myself a couple of times due to bad groups. A setup like this discourages me from considering that option.
12-17-2013, 06:24 AM
Kuwagami

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faelandaea

As far as being penalized for being kicked, they did already. Read the patch notes. They put it in bright red letters that being kicked does not result in a timer. As for DC - that's why gamers try to make sure they have a good ISP. From an Admin viewpoint I can see where I would consider someone saying "Oh this group isn't to my perfect liking. I'll get around the timer by "disconnecting" and i can just get right back into the game in a few minutes once they've "kicked" me..

Didn't know and had not seen that, thanks for the precisions. Though the 90k error still always results in a Tank penalty (I have always the bad role..). It had occured a couple of time recently and it's always bad news to see that the entire group was DCed suddenly after überlag (chat works but players in dungeon make big leaps and seem to pass through walls...), and I am the only one penalized for quitting...
12-17-2013, 06:32 AM
Amyas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doo

You're just a baddie dude!

I know it lol. Real pros are able to carry people right through the fire they like to stand in so much, if they can't do that they need to check themself :P
12-17-2013, 11:03 AM
Pr0c3ss0r

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doo

You're just a baddie dude!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amyas

I know it lol. Real pros are able to carry people right through the fire they like to stand in so much, if they can't do that they need to check themself :P

Open a window and take some fresh air, you really need it. Its a damn game, not a Nazi combat field.

Edit: Please someone make a new "hitler parody" on youtube "unable to kick player because they sux"
12-17-2013, 11:14 AM
Gilraen

While 4 hours is a pretty long time between initiated votes, I can see where it's coming from. I've played a number of other party-based games that had a vote-to-kick option without a timer and was it ever abused. MGO it came up repeatedly if people thought you were 'sucking', sometimes even on the room host if someone didn't like the match rotation! Give people a button, they are want to push it. If it's a button that can ruin someone else's day, they are want to push it all the more. With this timer people have to really weigh the option of pushing that button or just soldiering on. It only helps to promote teaching bad players how not to be bad.
12-17-2013, 11:15 AM
Doo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faelandaea

FFXIV players have it lucky. In every other MMO I play, the penalty is an hour. Examples: Rift, Star Trek Online, Neverwinter . . . there are a few others but those are the ones I was on most recently before coming to FFXIV and falling completely in love with this game.

There is no timer for leaving an instance in Neverwinter. Although sometimes you do get a glitched that makes the "Return to instance" button not go away.
12-17-2013, 11:22 AM
dcdistro

I heard it mentioned before and hope they really implement it in this update!!! They were going to issue a punishment timer to the jerk off pld's who keep clicking and canceling DF if its not a group in progress hoping its a quick last boss fight in AK or similar dungeon hoping for quick myths and get out.

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