so i was wondering about Whm and WP

Hm, sometimes i should read the previous posts :<. Even though getting hit by 1 grudge doesnt kill you afaik. The dmg should be close to 2000. Hmhm.

Edit: And again i did not read your post to the end xD... *blush*
I wonder though, do they insta-grudge you on target change? Can't remember that. I might do some testing^^

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Originally Posted by YuiSasaki

Hm, sometimes i should read the previous posts :<. Even though getting hit by 1 grudge doesnt kill you afaik. The dmg should be close to 2000. Hmhm.

Edit: And again i did not read your post to the end xD... *blush*
I wonder though, do they insta-grudge you on target change? Can't remember that. I might do some testing^^

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99% sure that it's a proximity thing. I know I have a habit of being out on the edge, because of the ingrained ranged idea of "do not be near the boss or he will eat you." Most healers I've run with (as DPS) have the same habit. If you're standing near the water (like on the outer edge of the circle to the left or right) and a tonberry on the tank (i.e. next to the boss, who is being tanked near the center of the room/towards the center-to-back) suddenly aggros on you, they're too far away to reach you in one "round" and I believe that is the trigger for the grudge. Like I said, I do believe that there was more than one tonberry (as it makes little sense that he'd get threat off of just one tonberry from healing, since he'd be building threat fairly equally among them), but it's possible that the healer only saw one (or the OP only saw one) before dropping.

Like I said, they can melee you until the cows come home and it really doesn't hurt, but the grudge hits like a mack truck.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

Snip.

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if you dont bother to protect yourself, im not bothered to kill the 1 mob that's beating your face haha. point being is if you cant handle one mob that CAN DIE in 1 hit your a fail player and should stop playing. now it would be different if it wasnt the tonberry boss, this would be the tanks fault ;)

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Originally Posted by Devaking55

if you dont bother to protect yourself, im not bothered to kill the 1 mob that's beating your face haha. point being is if you cant handle one mob that CAN DIE in 1 hit your a fail player and should stop playing. now it would be different if it wasnt the tonberry boss, this would be the tanks fault ;)

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Either way, you'll never be the wrong, right?
//rolleye

Sometimes you read some people's posts...and you wanna stop using DF cause you'd cut your arms rather then risking being in group with them o.o

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Originally Posted by Bellybell

Either way, you'll never be the wrong, right?
//rolleye

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how can i be wrong? i pray to my pagan deities that i never get you in a duty finder, i never want to hear you complain.

Hahahaha hmmmm im not sure what to say here since my main is a 50 Bard and I'm currently bringing up a CNJ.

I'll comment on the DPS side only I think since its what I run that dungeon with. When I run the King I pick up all of the Tonberry's and make sure none agro anyone but me. So I suppose the healer was right, but on the flip-side if I was the healer, I would have dealt with it so I didnt get killed then asked the DPS why he didnt pick it up.

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Originally Posted by Wolfhammer

Hahahaha hmmmm im not sure what to say here since my main is a 50 Bard and I'm currently bringing up a CNJ.

I'll comment on the DPS side only I think since its what I run that dungeon with. When I run the King I pick up all of the Tonberry's and make sure none agro anyone but me. So I suppose the healer was right, but on the flip-side if I was the healer, I would have dealt with it so I didnt get killed then asked the DPS why he didnt pick it up.

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i was literally focused on the boss, plus i mean seriously if you let it kill you it cant be my fault? if you get owned by a grudge when you have stoneskin on your hotbar.... I mean cmon lol

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Originally Posted by Devaking55

i was literally focused on the boss, plus i mean seriously if you let it kill you it cant be my fault? if you get owned by a grudge when you have stoneskin on your hotbar.... I mean cmon lol

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I know, it's like Stoneskin totally doesn't have a 3 second cast time, that you have to fit in while healing the tank up from Everybody's Grudge, and it's not like more than one Tonberry can kill you in 1-2 seconds or anything with Grudge. And it's not like Grudge hits for 2k (each) and Stoneskin heals for something like 644-875 as a White Mage*.

I mean, you must know all about this, given that you main a White Mage. Wait...you don't even play a White Mage...you've never healed the dungeon as a White Mage? Oh. Well, then. That explains a few things...

Yes, cupcake, it's 18% of the health of the person you cast it on. An average clothy starts with something like 3500 health at 50 (which translates to a shield absorbing 630 damage) and I currently have around ~4500 health, which translates to a shield that will absorb 810 damage. Wow! That SURE negates hits of 2k+ each!

I've done that fight many times myself (not as a healer I must point out) but as far as I can tell, the Tonberries don't aggro unless you attack them. They will go straight to the tank until someone attacks them thats when they aggro. Now I'm not sure how it works after that. I imagine this WHM may have healed a DPS who was attacking one and then the Ton turned to the WHM... But then, usually DPS that are killing the tons only kill 1 at a time. If you do the AoE method, waiting for them to reach the middle, I imagine none of the Tons escaping to catch the WHM but then, for the Tons to attack the WHM using that AoE method, the WHM would have had to heal one of the DPS doing the AoE. But it only takes a few AoEs to kill the Tons... I guess what I'm saying is, it seems to be either the DPS attacked several Tons, was healed and didn't notice that he didn't kill the Tons the WHM aggro'd, or the WHM attacked the Ton(s) himself in which case it's his own fault he died. Otherwise, in either case, if the Tons grudged him from far away it's just bad luck, nobody's fault. If the Tons killed him up close, it's his own fault. But it seems like this was just a purely situational setup with bad luck. No point in pointing fingers.

Personally I wait for all the tonberrys to be in range of a holy attack in the center. I hit the boss and 3-5 tonberries get 1 shotted by this spell even without cleric stance.

I get annoyed when dps waste time with these things because a white mage can easily one shot these monsters.

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Originally Posted by Luso

Personally I wait for all the tonberrys to be in range of a holy attack in the center. I hit the boss and 3-5 tonberries get 1 shotted by this spell even without cleric stance.

I get annoyed when dps waste time with these things because a white mage can easily one shot these monsters.

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My groups don't even bother with that. We just ignore the tonberries and burn the boss. If some tonberries die, well, okay. Tank just AoE tanks to keep them on him.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

I snip. [/SIZE]

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Oh yeah I forget that, I keep comparing it to adloquium and adloquium is way better muh bad.

But then again you can throw regen on a tank (specially since it's a warrior) then you know... Kill it.

I've been hit by that grudge before, I'm in clothy armor...and it hurts but nothing a healer can't deal with... And IMO 1.3k dmg is better to take than 2k.. Just saying cupcake.

lol OP that is one bad healer >.>;

I just DPS the KING and Wipe the adds with holy

can cure the tank through 5 stacks its a question of timing

WP is faceroll

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Originally Posted by Devaking55

Oh yeah I forget that, I keep comparing it to adloquium and adloquium is way better muh bad.

But then again you can throw regen on a tank (specially since it's a warrior) then you know... Kill it.

I've been hit by that grudge before, I'm in clothy armor...and it hurts but nothing a healer can't deal with... And IMO 1.3k dmg is better to take than 2k.. Just saying cupcake.

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Sure...while the tank is low and being stabbed by multiple tonberries (since you guys were apparently ignoring them!), I'm sure that will work. You know, if you're so sure you're not to blame, why even make the thread? What exactly are you trying to prove? Seriously.

Please go back to the DPS forums. You fit much better there.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

Sure...while the tank is low and being stabbed by multiple tonberries (since you guys were apparently ignoring them!), I'm sure that will work. You know, if you're so sure you're not to blame, why even make the thread? What exactly are you trying to prove? Seriously.

Please go back to the DPS forums. You fit much better there.

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ive tanked this dungeon too and the only thing that hurts during that fight is everybodies grudge. and nope no multiple berrys hitting the tank. this thread was about the self righteous healers who think they arent to blame for their own deaths that they could have prevented seeing if this is a common thing on the forums and well... i see you are one of them healers.

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Originally Posted by Thunderz

lol OP that is one bad healer >.>;

I just DPS the KING and Wipe the adds with holy

can cure the tank through 5 stacks its a question of timing

WP is faceroll

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thats what im saying!

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Originally Posted by Devaking55

ive tanked this dungeon too and the only thing that hurts during that fight is everybodies grudge. and nope no multiple berrys hitting the tank. this thread was about the self righteous healers who think they arent to blame for their own deaths that they could have prevented seeing if this is a common thing on the forums and well... i see you are one of them healers.

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So you admit that your purpose in creating this thread was to "name and shame" someone who couldn't defend themselves?

Wow.

People might flip out if he/she's new, I guess what you can do in that situation is just to explain calmly and if he refuses, make him learn how effective waiting in the middle and using 2 holies is.

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Originally Posted by Richiealvian

People might flip out if he/she's new, I guess what you can do in that situation is just to explain calmly and if he refuses, make him learn how effective waiting in the middle and using 2 holies is.

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Right except this person has a relic. lol and name and shame? i dont use anyone's name :) he/she knows who they are tho if they read this.

Main reason why I don't DF or PUG anything

Too many baddies...

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Originally Posted by Devaking55

Right except this person has a relic. lol and name and shame? i dont use anyone's name :) he/she knows who they are tho if they read this.

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Seriously, your only intention appears to be to talk shit about someone behind their back without any way of them defending themselves. I still think you're lying through your teeth - otherwise you wouldn't care enough to make this thread. You have something to prove, probably because you know you behaved badly.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

Seriously, your only intention appears to be to talk shit about someone behind their back without any way of them defending themselves. I still think you're lying through your teeth - otherwise you wouldn't care enough to make this thread. You have something to prove, probably because you know you behaved badly.

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what reason do i have to lie? lol im not so narcissistic to lie about something on a forum.... but i like your personal attacks. its cute.

Sounds like everyone involved needed to get a better understanding of the mechanics of the fight. I'm really struggling to see how the whm got agro on them in the first place without doing something patently daft as well as what would put you off running there as whm? I do 150dps+ average across the run whilst healing and I've never managed to get that to happen even when I originally used to double stone 1 each tonberry individually. Nowadays I just stack directly under the king/pld and holy the lot down in one hit right after the king starts using grudge.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Sounds like everyone involved needed to get a better understanding of the mechanics of the fight. I'm really struggling to see how the whm got agro on them in the first place without doing something patently daft as well as what would put you off running there as whm? I do 150dps+ average across the run whilst healing and I've never managed to get that to happen even when I originally used to double stone 1 each tonberry individually. Nowadays I just stack directly under the king/pld and holy the lot down in one hit right after the king starts using grudge.

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As I've said multiple times, the only thing that makes any sense is that the tanks, DPS, and healer were all ignoring the adds, but were not kiting the boss (which is a very common strategy, especially in speed runs). The idea is to burn the boss down before the adds pile up on the tank and make things dicey. However, the tank is supposed to AoE a bit (circle of scorn, flash woven in) to make sure the adds "stick" to him. In the process, the adds will slowly die. If the tank doesn't balance CDs correctly, or something goes wrong (he takes extra hits during an Everybody's Grudge/boss ends up with unexpected stacks and EG is stronger than expected), then the WHM could conceivably pull threat by dropping 1-2 Cure II's (or 1-2 Cure II crits) on the tank.

Because if it was just one Tonberry standing there stabbing him, the healer could survive the entire encounter without even healing himself - they don't do enough damage individually to be of concern. But if he got more than one on him (which is what would happen if it was actual healing threat), they could kill him in a matter of seconds.

Which is why I've said - and will continue to say - that the OP is leaving out details that would make him look bad.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

Because if it was just one Tonberry standing there stabbing him, the healer could survive the entire encounter without even healing himself - they don't do enough damage individually to be of concern. But if he got more than one on him (which is what would happen if it was actual healing threat), they could kill him in a matter of seconds.

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Well,as long as you dont run from the tonberries you can outheal their dmg. Even if you got the entire spawn of little ones on you :>.
IF he ran though he gets grudged, and yeah i tested it - getting the aggro of the little ones from the tank, they did not grudge me :<.

Ofc i might've been lucky.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

snippity snippity.

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why would the tank pull the adds to himself.....

as long as the dps kiting the adds around tags them they dont pull to the healer at least not that ive noticed. and no im not leaving out anything. what could i possible leave out? the healer said he died from a tonberry because the dps didnt kill it, i asked him why he didnt kill it, he said he wasnt dps. clear as crystal to me. notice the words A and IT and realize what they imply liadans :)

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Originally Posted by YuiSasaki

Well,as long as you dont run from the tonberries you can outheal their dmg. Even if you got the entire spawn of little ones on you :>.
IF he ran though he gets grudged, and yeah i tested it - getting the aggro of the little ones from the tank, they did not grudge me :<.

Ofc i might've been lucky.

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It's a proximity-based effect. If you're too far away from them when they aggro, they immediately cast grudge.

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Originally Posted by Devaking55

why would the tank pull the adds to himself.....

as long as the dps kiting the adds around tags them they dont pull to the healer at least not that ive noticed. and no im not leaving out anything. what could i possible leave out? the healer said he died from a tonberry because the dps didnt kill it, i asked him why he didnt kill it, he said he wasnt dps. clear as crystal to me. notice the words A and IT and realize what they imply liadans :)

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The adds automatically go to the tank from the moment they spawn.

In our FC our healers kill the tonberries. (I'm the whm) and I actually find it easier than letting a dps do it. Why? The fight goes by SOOO much faster. And it's not like the tank is taking massive damage save for grudge. Even then it's easy to take care of.