What is exactly is the point of crafting?

Here is the point. It's pointless right now.
Maybe they will clue in and make rare drops at some point which are needed to make higher items.

I would like to see crafted gear fill the voids. make a i65 and i75 and i85 sets of craft able gear.

But really the hole crafting system need to be more useful.

IE more items for later stages of upgrades.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

Here is the point. It's pointless right now.
Maybe they will clue in and make rare drops at some point which are needed to make higher items.

I would like to see crafted gear fill the voids. make a i65 and i75 and i85 sets of craft able gear.

But really the hole crafting system need to be more useful.

IE more items for later stages of upgrades.

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Problem with i65/i75/etc. is that the trend so far is such that the cost to make it greatly exceeds the cost to get an equivalent or better drop.

Additionally, it seems they may not want anything valuable to drop that could be used for crafting, lest it be 'farmed' by RMT. This may well be the way forward.

What makes crafting useless isn't the lack of gear. In fact, the high end Crafted gear + Materia can easily be better than DL gear. No, what makes crafting useless is the obscene pricing on crafted gear. 200k for one piece of gear is ridiculous, only someone who has already leveled a crafting class can afford that. For dedicated raiders, it's easier to farm tomes than it is to farm gil. If we had more gil or if you charged less, then you would see crafted gear be the staple in coil. Though I'm not sure if it's the crafters or the gatherers that are charging too much, but someone needs to cut those prices by at least half.

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

What makes crafting useless isn't the lack of gear. In fact, the high end Crafted gear + Materia can easily be better than DL gear. No, what makes crafting useless is the obscene pricing on crafted gear. 200k for one piece of gear is ridiculous, only someone who has already leveled a crafting class can afford that. For dedicated raiders, it's easier to farm tomes than it is to farm gil. If we had more gil or if you charged less, then you would see crafted gear be the staple in coil. Though I'm not sure if it's the crafters or the gatherers that are charging too much, but someone needs to cut those prices by at least half.

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You're looking at the wrong groups since the i70 mats are obtained by exchanging philosophy tomes. Although, considering the amount of tomes you need you can't really blame the "raiders" there either.

i70 crafts cost 1125 or sometimes even 2250 tomes. So yeah, take your pick. 2250 tomes for a single ring or... well half your DL.

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

What makes crafting useless isn't the lack of gear. In fact, the high end Crafted gear + Materia can easily be better than DL gear. No, what makes crafting useless is the obscene pricing on crafted gear. 200k for one piece of gear is ridiculous, only someone who has already leveled a crafting class can afford that. For dedicated raiders, it's easier to farm tomes than it is to farm gil. If we had more gil or if you charged less, then you would see crafted gear be the staple in coil. Though I'm not sure if it's the crafters or the gatherers that are charging too much, but someone needs to cut those prices by at least half.

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That's the catch. Dungeon farmers just use Philo for gear turn in. Crafters don't dungeon farm and they need to compete with Philo Gear to even get the materials.

Putting Coke/ Potash/ all mats to Philo in dungeons was like shooting crafting in the face and it was done on purpose. Square have done little but make bullshit excuses. As I said before, I'm a level 55 crafter until that changes, crafting for the sake of an alternative content to dungeon farming.

My complaint with the crafting system is that everyone can level everything to 50 in virtually no time. There's no specialisation. You don't see people taking pride in their craft and shouting, "50 WVR LFW." Instead, you see, "All crafts 50."

I and many others are at and have been at the point where no market interaction is necessary. I can farm everything myself; I can craft everything myself; all that's required is for me is to sell the items to some poor sap who hasn't reached that point yet.

While I appreciate the "do-it-yourself" design, this isn't healthy in the long run. Specialisation is required to force market interactions. Furthermore, item design is completely backwards. Rather than making it difficult to reach the point where you can make, say, Hi-Elixirs, they just made it so that creating them (obtaining the materials) is so cost-intensive that it's undesirable for anyone to make them.

No, the problem isn't with crafted gear. It's as Skyhound suggests; it's the ridiculous cost of crafted items, which stems in part from the fact that everyone has access to these crafts.

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

For dedicated raiders, it's easier to farm tomes than it is to farm gil. If we had more gil or if you charged less, then you would see crafted gear be the staple in coil. Though I'm not sure if it's the crafters or the gatherers that are charging too much, but someone needs to cut those prices by at least half.

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If you get a piece of HQ crafted ilvl70 gear for 200k, that's not bad at all.

The problem is that the crafted 2-star stuff requires lots of tomestones of philosophy. You have to do at least 11-12 dungeon runs to get enough for one piece.
With the same ammount you could also buy 1-2 darklight items with equivalent stats.
Crafted and melded ilvl70 is better than DL, but you have to decide yourself if it's worth the higher cost. Especially since getting AF2 is so easy.
So, yes, I agree that crafted items are too expensive to make in terms of time investment.

People better don't come up with any arguments of how you need skill or have to do endgame content to get endgame gear because it's not true. All it takes is some time to get enough tomestones.

Regarding crafting, I really don't understand the argument of crafting for alts.
Why would you need an alt? And if you really want one for whatever reason, why would you need gear for it?
You get all the gear you need from quests or chests while leveling up. And for running with the FATE train you don't need any gear at all.

Another silly argument is housing.
I didn't level all the crafts to make furniture which serves no purpose besides looks.
And once the house is full, crafters will be in the same situation again.

Also, I don't see what would prevent RMT from running dungeons all day and selling tomestone materials on the AH.
So, using the argument of RMT as reason for making crafting so weak seems pretty weak too.
And btw. if you haven't noticed by now, RMT already control the crystal market. But while RMT spammers get deleted within a day now, reported bots are allowed to continue farming for months.
Not one of the 100% obvious bot/hack users I reported got deleted yet. Looks like teleporting between nodes and being below the map is not against the rules. However.

Back on topic.
Most crafting classes miss items with a steady demand. Culinarian and Alchemist are the only classes producing consumables, and most of the potions from alchemy are not even used because they serve no purpose in endgame.
Ammo got taken out of the game and won't come back, Ninja (if we ever get it) will probably not use any powders either, so they took that part of crafting away.

I like the idea of crafting pop items for special NMs which drop either gear or materials required for crafting good gear.
Enhancing items or enchanting them sounds nice too.
It would also be nice if crafters could repair the equipment of other players again.

How about SE buffs the stats of base classes like Archer, Conjurer and Marauder to the same level of the advanced classes and gives them abilities which require some sort of crafted reagent or ammunition?
Or let the base classes use items to recieve a stat boost up to or above advanced class level.
I find it a bit sad that the base classes serve no purpose and have much lower stats than the advanced classes.

Leveling crafting professions is worth it for the cute outfits.

this is sickening, leave crafting alone will you guys?

In future will have more then just craft/gathering. give it time. Soon we will be riding on our FC airship, group baking cakes and stuff.

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

this is sickening, leave crafting alone will you guys?

In future will have more then just craft/gathering. give it time. Soon we will be riding on our FC airship, group baking cakes and stuff.

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I never got the group cake thing? I agree that they need to overhaul end game crafting, I really want to make myself full Heavy Darklight but feck farming the tomes for coke and there is no way I'm buying a Darksteel Ingot for 300k when I can get an HQ Heavy Darksteel Body for 250k, except I can't BECAUSE IT WON'T HAVE MY NAME ON IT.

Perhaps having unique material drops from endgame dungeons that are needed to craft ilvl 65/75/85 gear could help? Who knows, housing can't come quick enough, it'll be good to have actual stuff to make that will be in demand.

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Originally Posted by Grundy

Who knows, housing can't come quick enough, it'll be good to have actual stuff to make that will be in demand.

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As someone stated earlier furniture will be low demand being as its FC housing first and most FCs will have the crafters to make the stuff. So SEs comment saying furniture will be great for crafts is garbage as it will pretty much be useless and by the time they add private housing furniture will probably end up being worthless or not worth the time to make.

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

You crafts, and in future you and your merry friends will craft houses, ship, cakes and more

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So..craft now for hopes for 1.5+ years from now? :x

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Originally Posted by Luso

You are undervaluing HQ 2-star gear by a lot. Sure it says i70, but it is some of the most useful gear to have in the game. Getting the right materia melds into those gear will fix problems you might have trying to gear out for Turn 5.

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Depends on the item. If you take ilvl70 weapons over ilvl80, you're a fool. Some ilvl70 crafted armor can be good, but many are not. 2-star tank gear, for example, is really just used because it takes fewer tomes. The pieces which are well beyond their item level, however, are the accessories, especially since those let you conserve valuable myth tomes for the bigger upgrades.

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

this is sickening, leave crafting alone will you guys?

In future will have more then just craft/gathering. give it time. Soon we will be riding on our FC airship, group baking cakes and stuff.

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SE had time since 2002 to work on crafting and come up with a good system.
Now we have some neat crafting mechanics, but most things we make are not required or play a minor role in the game.


We'll never be able to fly with airships like we use chocobos. It will probably be like the normal airships, just for free and maybe, if we're lucky, you can go skyfishing while traveling.
Group crafting could be nice, but it won't be anything game breaking, because that would not meet the casual aspect of the game, making it situational.

Honestly, I'm not holding my breath when it comes to crafting unless they enable crafters to make stuff equivalent to AF2/Allagan.
Make it hard, make it bind on pickup, make it a long process, but make it worth the effort.
Currently the effort of obtaining AF2/DL is less than crafting a set of ilvl70 gear.

Oh well, I guess hope is the last thing to die.


PS: I hate forum character limitations ><

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Originally Posted by Castillan

Ok, but crafting earns us gil you may. Gil to buy what exactly?

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Housing~

/10char

Everyone seems to miss that apparently pvp gear will be crafted unless there are some pvp specific consumables which i doubt.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Patch 2.1 will see the addition of the Wolves’ Den and the Housing system, and the services of crafters will be in high demand for both PvP-related items and furnishings.

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Originally Posted by RynaultB

As someone stated earlier furniture will be low demand being as its FC housing first and most FCs will have the crafters to make the stuff. So SEs comment saying furniture will be great for crafts is garbage as it will pretty much be useless and by the time they add private housing furniture will probably end up being worthless or not worth the time to make.

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This but also some jobs will be able to make money, just not the crafters. The gatherers will pick up the increased demand. Every FC has at least someone who can cover a crafting job and at the end of the day crafting is just an intermediary between the raw material and the finished product, and the labor they provide is often provided to FCs for free.

Yoshida needs to realize this, everyone being able to make everything themselves leaves no room for a sellers market. There needs to be some sort of specialization system.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

[...]Yoshida needs to realize this, everyone being able to make everything themselves leaves no room for a sellers market. There needs to be some sort of specialization system.

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That system isn't needed.
With the accessablity of gathered items atm it is doable to produce cheap gear. This is needed to gear low level chars. But Square inserted NPC selling gear up to lvl45(?), those NPC have to go at first, supply is cheaply produced by crafters.
HQ Syntheses have to fade by a good percentage. It can not be accepted that HQ is the new NQ. Reduce the HQ chance considering the time already put into leveled classes, around 65-85% seems reasonable to me.

A specialization would do what the job system has done. It would press us in a "more-comfortable-to-balance-for-SE" position and that is not needed too.

They should gather our feedback and provide us their rough plans for the future, no more, no less. And we'll offer our honest feedback to that plans. Feedback should also include compromisses we are willing to do.

The problem with introducing some rarity to HQ items is that it's a double edged sword, the increase in value would be offset by the cost of making hq, and from a seller's pov for every HQ they make they will have a lot of NQ that no one wants.

The NPC issue is a valid point, but eventually the amount of people leveling jobs will slow to a trickle so that would dry up anyway.

I suggested specialization because when paired with top level crafts that are actually useful and demanded by the majority of buyers, it ensures there are always buyers as well as sellers in healthy ratios.

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Originally Posted by Feilina

That system isn't needed.
With the accessablity of gathered items atm it is doable to produce cheap gear. This is needed to gear low level chars. But Square inserted NPC selling gear up to lvl45(?), those NPC have to go at first, supply is cheaply produced by crafters.

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NPCs aren't competition, everything on the market board is cheaper. I don't see how removing them would help anything.

The best things for crafters would be a "WoW-like" system (enchanting, BiS gear coming from dungeon recipes), but mister director doesn't want it to play an important role... the system isn't sustainable at all.

Ya know... I really wish I had as much time to spend in the game as you OP. I'd love to be able to craft anything, especially crafted jewels. Crafted iLVL70 will always be better to be than darklight. I just don't get why this stupid topic keeps coming up. Having your crafts is so beneficial to you compared to not having in the long run.

I realize not everyone enjoys every aspect of the game, but there should still always be incentive to drive players to make use of the content created. Similar to how there is a method of questing for a DoW/DoM to forge a relic and enhance it, there should also be a quest to allow that same player to use their leveled gathering and crafting class to further enhance that gear. It wouldn't even have to be a drastic increase in the gear effectiveness, so long as it was better people would be given a reason to use all the content.

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Originally Posted by Castillan

*SNIP*

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Crafting offers the best unrestricted (no cap, no lockout) gear upgrades in the game, and SE has confirmed crafted items for PvP in 2.1. Crafting is also a good way to earn money that can be used to obtain upgrades, buy consumables, level additional jobs, and (next week) pay for player housing. If you consider better gear, more money, and all the associated benefits to both as being "pointless"... then I guess crafting is pointless.

Not to mention, some people actually enjoy crafting.

Three members of your FC just leveled.

One got fishing to 35, the other got fishing to 38 and another guy has Marauder to 30.

Make suits for them all. Hint: You will need one Steel rivet, one silver Ingot, if you don't have the leather but you do have the hides, don't forget Alumen and Black Alument because you will need 1 Peiste leather. Yes, you will also need Velveteen and that's cotton and dew. You will also need linen cloth and thread, I'm sure I missed a few dozen stacks of one thing.

Retainer, tab, tab, tab, tab, tab, tab, tab.
Retainer, tab, tab, tab, tab, tab, tab, tab.

Wait, main hand? Wood and glue and oil. Some other leathers.

InB4 "Use the MB".

I need one silver Ingot. Not 90, not 60. I need 1. Pay 2000 Gil for it? No.. I don't think so.

crafted gear should be equal to drops, special mats should drop from dungeons to craft that gear.

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Originally Posted by indira

crafted gear should be equal to drops, special mats should drop from dungeons to craft that gear.

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And make it more difficult to get than the dungeon gear itself? Seems like so many MMO crafting systems make dumb mistakes like that.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

[...]Make suits for them all. Hint: You will need one Steel rivet, one silver Ingot, if you don't have the leather but you do have the hides, don't forget Alumen and Black Alument because you will need 1 Peiste leather. Yes, you will also need Velveteen and that's cotton and dew. You will also need linen cloth and thread, I'm sure I missed a few dozen stacks of one thing.

Retainer, tab, tab, tab, tab, tab, tab, tab.
Retainer, tab, tab, tab, tab, tab, tab, tab.[...]

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Let's be fair. If a dungeon player has to overcome some obstacles, we should have too! They get killed by mechanics, we get strechted by the consumed time to grab our good. That can't, that mustn't be an issue!

or they can make upgrade-able item for armor and weapon. It has its own durability and can't be repaired, so when it is destroyed, you need to re-apply it.
Armorer = heavy armor
Leatherworker = medium armor
weaver = light armor
goldsmith = accessory
carpenter = wood weapon
blacksmith = iron weapon


so for dungeon crawler or raid fanatics that want to maximize their stats will buy these stuff.

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Originally Posted by HorrorStory

I suppose they don't want it to be so trivial as to be able to craft your own iLV90 at this stage in the game. That, and the best items in the game should be gotten through quests and not the Market Board.

Eventually new and higher-level recipes will be introduced. You could say that leveling your crafts will prepare you for those.

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They don't want it to be trivial to get the best gear in the game, not trivial like running AK and WP a 1000 times or anything right nothing as trivial as repeating the same two dungeons over and over no....

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Originally Posted by Skotie

They don't want it to be trivial to get the best gear in the game, not trivial like running AK and WP a 1000 times or anything right nothing as trivial as repeating the same two dungeons over and over no....

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crafting will get u the best gear almost instantly. u just have to farm tomes and get the mats. higher level equipments im talking ilvl 90 here have lockouts. if ur able to craft ilevel 90 gear whats the point of going for the dungeon gear? :3

Because some penta-melded 2 star is better then allegan / myth for some class, arguably...

In my honest opinion, there is no point to crafting. Completely usesless unless you want to farm gil, which you cant do anything with than buy an FC house. Great.
Well, some say crafted gear is better than DL gear for some classes... if you actually are going through all the trouble for SUCH a minor benefit, I believe you need something more worthwhile to do... It might be though, that im just lazy. :)

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Originally Posted by Mitski

Crafting offers the best unrestricted (no cap, no lockout) gear upgrades in the game

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That would be missing the point. You're getting your ilvl70 stuff along the way as you collect myth tomes for ilvl90, and crafted ilvl70 gear is not good endgame equipment for most jobs anyway. You're not farming dungeons for 150 hours to get full ilvl70 crafted gear, either. Like I said, some are well beyond their item level, like most accessories. Others simply are not, like Heavy Darksteel. Of particular note here is, again, Blacksmith's endgame crafts. Crafting tools aside, you ilvl55 weapons which are not worth using over GC weapons, and you have ilvl70 weapons which are a total waste to craft over farming up a Garuda weapon and moving to the invariably-superior ilvl80 relic weapon instead. Ilvl70 crafted weapons are an alternative to nothing. If you're that worried about Titan, you can buy a success for less than the cost to craft the weaker alternative.

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Originally Posted by Mitski

and SE has confirmed crafted items for PvP in 2.1.

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More consumables that nobody will use.

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Originally Posted by Mitski

Crafting is also a good way to earn money

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And do what with that gil? I have 6 million sitting around. I don't try to get more, because it has absolutely no point. I can't buy good gear; I have to farm myth tomes for it. Farming myth tomes gives more philo tomes than I know what to do with already. Just the 5 body slots and relic+1 are 3675 myth tomes, or 123 WP runs. That's 12,300 philo tomes. What the hells could you need to buy?

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Originally Posted by Mitski

buy consumables

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Such as? Water Ward Mega Potions, with 15-second duration and 5 minute cooldown and mind-blowing cost for an item with no use at all? Raiding food isn't that expensive -- you can afford far more than a week's worth of raiding food from your weekly myth farm already -- and since the effect will soon persist after death, it becomes even more meaningless. You could make the same argument about farming WP already. You can pull down 300 tomes and about 8000 gil in an hour, which is right around 50k/hr from selling the mats without touching a crafting job. Problem is, why bother when the gil isn't getting you anywhere?

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Originally Posted by Mitski

level additional jobs

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Gil does not level your jobs. Crafters do not level your jobs. I have no idea where you're going with this.

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Originally Posted by Mitski

and (next week) pay for player housing.

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I can't spend 0 gil on the FC house that I don't have because I'm not in a free company! Of course, were that cost only meaningful for half of the FCs out there in the first place, as they have cash and liquid assets in the billions of gil and doubtlessly will not begin to notice the price tag.

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Originally Posted by Mitski

Not to mention, some people actually enjoy crafting.

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I may enjoy WAR, but that doesn't mean that WAR isn't crap at endgame.

my crafts will gear my alts :3

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Originally Posted by Noutaja

In my honest opinion, there is no point to crafting. Completely usesless unless you want to farm gil, which you cant do anything with than buy an FC house. Great.
Well, some say crafted gear is better than DL gear for some classes... if you actually are going through all the trouble for SUCH a minor benefit, I believe you need something more worthwhile to do... It might be though, that im just lazy. :)

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Minor benefit? 20+ more stats isnt minor.its massive! they are almost on par with allagan/af2,and for some classes,they are better in some slots.

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Originally Posted by diulalasing

Because some penta-melded 2 star is better then allegan / myth for some class, arguably...

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yep.i <3 materia.soo many people underestimate it.and they make it seem much harder to do than it actually is.mental fear blocks for ya

At least, the minimum, that should be in the game is dungeon drops attached to the economy. What I mean by this, materials should drop from the dungeon and then be crafted, well, by crafters classes. But I'm not referring to the ridiculous amount of items it takes to make vanyan gear or other star 2 items. It shouldn't take that crazy amount to make something.

It's a circle where it is interconnected. Not this Dungeon gear (already assembled) > than whatever a crafter makes.

This method, will allow those who raid dungeons sell items (material) from dungeons to crafters. Crafters will sell the gear made by these ingredient and raiders will buy the gear. (A circle)

Right now, we don't have a real economy based on a market. I have spend about less than 15% of the gil I had since the game started (I had gil from 1.0) because in reality there's nothing much you can spend it on.

Gatherers are suffering from the bots underminding the cost of materials, so not many people seem to want to gather anymore. This of course, creates a hole in the market where ingredients are abundant and everything is cheap. One, because ingredients cost are way down, due to the saturation of the market because of the botting. Two, people can't make a profit out of anything that's crafted because there are better options from dungeon and the crazy undercutting war that is going on right now. All because there's no demand for the items.

Think about it, there would not be crazy undercutting if there were demands for the items sold in the market. But right now, there's just little demand and things are being sold for a less amount than it cost to make the item. I know this always has happended in every MMO that has an auction house, but I've never seen it to this extend.

And the other problem is, that to level a crafter it doesn't take that long to get it to the current level cap. So, this means there are a lot of crafters in the game right now and again causing a oversaturation of the market. Mainly because there's not that much a player will buy from the market. So items are not leaving the market faster than they are entering.

Well, my point is that the current market is not driving an economy in this game and it's making it very hard for players to generate a decent amount of gil from sellings things and since they can't generate a profit, they can't be buyers either, causing a negative effect for gatherers who want to also make a profit and therefore, it has a negative effect on crafters and gatherer players (including those who farm items from monsters, like hides and other things).

The best gathering class is combat classes. More or less sums it all up.

We'll see what plans they have for crafting as patches move forward and we get futher away from fresh 50 gearing, but I'm not holding my breath. They don't know how to stop bots, so they try to design around them which is terrible.

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Originally Posted by Djeserit

Yes, plots will be expensive....

at first.

They will get cheaper over time. The only reason to buy gil to buy a plot would be if you have to have it NOW. Which only fools would.The more you know.

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And we all know game is full of those fools. C'mon RMT for gil is rife as are the bots supplying the stuff...

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Originally Posted by HorrorStory

I suppose they don't want it to be so trivial as to be able to craft your own iLV90 at this stage in the game. That, and the best items in the game should be gotten through quests and not the Market Board.

Eventually new and higher-level recipes will be introduced. You could say that leveling your crafts will prepare you for those.

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best items in the game should be obtained through questing ..... that just makes me shudder .. personally i think the best gear in the game should be obtained from killing the hardest encounters in the game .... like RPG's are meant to do
the fact that u can currently obtain the best gear in the game from a 15 min dungeon speedrun is pathetic and SE should really do some re-hiring cuz of that one

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

*SNIP*

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After reading the nonsense that you posted, I looked at your lodestone: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1563894/. You claim to have 6 million gil and more philosophy tomes than you know what to do with, so why is your character so poorly geared? You have no 2-star accessories (best in slot) and the few crafted items you do have are not melded.

If you want to be lazy and settle for using sub-par gear and slower progression that's your choice, but your lack of motivation does not diminish the value of crafting.

Also, there are several WAR that have cleared T5, and WAR is receiving a massive buff in less than a week. Why are you still complaining?