Reason why DF people fail Titan

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Originally Posted by EvokerKeii

Wait wait wait wait wait...wait...WAIT!
You mean I CAN'T just stand on Titan and spam AOEs?
Well then what the heck has the game been teaching me?

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Fates = bad post.

This topic is now complete.

Yep, Titan is a great lag-check. Anyway duty finder for it is kind of a joke. 2 tanks..... So you have to be lucky and have 4 decent geared DPS or they won't even get to when the fight start.

Anyway people can be carried on Titan too, it's not that different... Just not in duty finder xD.

If they put and ilvl check on duty finder (on Ilvl 60 I guess) and a 5DPS 1 tank 2 healers party, people will be carried on duty finder as much as in Garuda HM.

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Originally Posted by Elvin

Yep, Titan is a great lag-check. Anyway duty finder for it is kind of a joke. 2 tanks..... So you have to be lucky and have 4 decent geared DPS or they won't even get to when the fight start.

Anyway people can be carried on Titan too, it's not that different... Just not in duty finder xD.

If they put and ilvl check on duty finder (on Ilvl 60 I guess) and a 5DPS 1 tank 2 healers party, people will be carried on duty finder as much as in Garuda HM.

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I like 1 tank at least a BRD and 4 more dps, a WHM and a SCH, of course they need full darklight and at least garuda weapon, 2.1 will put gear checks for DF.

"of course they need full darklight and at least garuda weapon, 2.1 will put gear checks for DF."

That's a joke, I suppose... I mean, of course if they have that it's better, but you can't put that on DF. And of course it's not necesary. Ilvl check will be a "minimun gear check", so it won't be more than ilvl 60. Maybe even less.

But the "at least garuda weapon" is the best part of it... "at least"? Only relic and allagan weapons are better........

Thought garuda weapon was ilvl 60, I must have been thinking of Ifrit weapon, which is fine too, I never really dpsed titan, I was always on the recieving end of his punches, so I would not be for sure of what gear a dps needs to down the heart.

Too little communication and people leaving too soon are also a problem if you ask me.

Sure, if your party wipes for the 15th time with no signs of improvement I don't see any harm in leaving. But I have seen people leave after 1 or two tries with a PT that was very promising. Instead of yelling at someone that their gear is bad, try giving some tips on how to improve in a polite way.

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

There are bad players in the DF!? /shocked

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Just as there are horrible ppl out of it as well... have u seen how much ppl fail in titan pugs or turn 2...

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AK = DPS check on Wall
Ifrit = Super Minor DPS check on Nails
Garuda = Tank Skill Check
Titan = Connection Latency Check

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don't agree, most ppl failt at ifrit for not know how to dps nail efective.
demon wall dps check? u kidding right? how many times me(healer) and my friend war did it alone, dps check is a joke, ppl problem is dyeing for repel or don't move out of line atk, is a minor brain check.
Garuda is way more an healer agro management check for me then anything else.
Titan is far from dps check for me, is a check to know who can learn with his on deaths and who can't.

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Originally Posted by NightWrath

Just as there are horrible ppl out of it as well... have u seen how much ppl fail in titan pugs or turn 2...

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why quote a sarcasm ?

Lag is horrible cause if I stop casting at 0.5sec I still get my cast. I wasted myself 2 days cause of titan. It is pretty interesting still DF queues take sometimes under 1min as dps so many ppl are using it.

I think Titan is level 70. I got my 3rd relic in DF. the main difference in my 213 losses and my recent win on blm is everyone dodged. and no one was using level 55 gear and weapons.

DF fail titan is a myth, I do df titan with my whm when I am bored, as long as you willing to stick with it everyone learn eventually.
Titan requires something very different to all other fight that gone before, it is unforgiving, knowing the rotation/position is everything, doesn't matter how skilled you are it will take time to learn.

And for the record, you can beat titan in AF gear if everyone knows what they are doing and you can easily carry 3-4 people in titan depending on your gear.

a lot of people in DF is undergeared but refused to acknowledged it

It's just dodging. That's it. That's all of it.

If you are i60 or above, even a moderate DPS from everyone will down the heart (with a LB in some cases). After that, no matter how long the fight lasts, the healers can manage as long as they only have to heal the tank and tumults.

But dodging is the hard bit. Until someone helped me tweak my LAN settings I had to be dodging plumes before they appeared (EU player here). After that tweak I can now dodge plumes every time after they appear.

Honestly, if they were at a reasonable price, I would buy a run just to get seven other people who can dodge reliably (or who are geared enough to be able to lose someone pre-heart).

The reason people fail at titan is because they either:
A. Lack focus
B. Lack the ability to learn a pattern
C. Lag
D. Its their first time
E. All of the above

Titan is one of those bosses that requires everyone to be at the top of their game alive and doing their part till at least after heart phase where 3-5 skilled players can still pull it off.

I believe part of this is due to the fact of other RPGs being way to laxed. You sit there and press a button every now and then, has little to do with motion or even having to evade attacks. If you played ffxi for years then came to this one, it was like a whole new ball game for bosses. You can't just sit there and hit the mob while you go get a soda or make pancakes. You have to be focused ALL THE TIMES and READY FOR ANYTHING. Boss uses herp, in response you derp.

The people who try to skip having to shout for/form their own in-server Titan HM party, and then ragequit after 2 wipes aren't really helping the DF scene either...

Winding up in a group with one or more players who take longer to figure things out than you do/did isn't a streak of "bad luck", it's a simple fact of what you're signing up for when you sign up for a DF PUG. You don't lose exp from dying, and the repair bills are laughable now. Even more so if you go to the small effort of farming a low level material that sells fast.

In the end, you're far more likely to waste more time (yours and those in the pugs you're ditching) playing DF Pug roulette hoping you get put with an LS group that's DFing for 1 open slot that just happens to be the role you're playing (which sounds like asking to be carried if you ask me), than simply forming your own in-server party and actually sticking with it. otherwise, find an endgame LS or something.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

People giving up is definitely one of the problems in new content (i.e. within 3 months of it becoming available), not being able to take replacements is the final blow. I've even had a party that could consistently down the heart, then the off-tank (warrior) quits, and then a DD quits, then a healer, then 2 DDs and that was it.

I don't really know why primal fights prohibit replacements. Perhaps it was to force people to stick with a party. But that is not consistent with the design of DF. DF is a efficiency machine. It is all about efficiency. But it's replacement policies are anything but efficient. For example, no replacements in primal fights, and then there's making in-progress matching an opt-in.

If it really was about efficiency, it should have allowed replacements in primal fights, and make in-progress matching an inherent default (first timers get new instances obviously). That would have be the most efficient.
Perhaps what it really is about, is the efficiency on the server of making matches, not the efficiency for players. In that case the current design is understandable.

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Agree, the join a already started run should be mandatory and allowed for pre-made parties (you can't use it unless you are alone right now). And primals should be able to refill group, this is the most silly thing, not having it kind of beats the uses DF down to the ground, in fact, it's one of the biggest issues why it's so hard to kill it with DF, and this is because even if you have a good group, if someone leaves, byebye good group.

DF anti-socials = loss.

I kinda agree with the OP, from what I've seen with most of the parties that fail at Titan it's because they aren't geared well enough to do enough DPS on heart phase or to survive the Tumults on phase 5. I've seen people enter with full normal AF, white acc or low ilvl wep as DPS.

I even had some awesome parties that knew what to do, dodged everything and still failed because most of the DPS where with really low ilvl gear and couldn't kill the heart in time.

I was DF'ing Titan for my PLD relic and I would just have some bizarre problems like having 2 DPS with relics, entire party up during heart phase, and STILL not managing to kill the damn thing. Whenever I would get a really really good group someone would start getting connection issues and constant red squiggle status and basically force us to reluctantly exit that run.

My win was with a really good group and one iffy DRG that finally made it to the heart once they realized that maybe, just maybe, using Jumps that lock you in place in a fight where standing still kills you is not the best idea after you have been landslided 3 times because of it.

But then I go do a Hydra for my friend and have a PUG Relic +1 PLD dying because they can't get out of White Breath and not moving Hydra out of the AOEs so melee can actually attack it, adds not dying even with two ranged relic DPS, and a relic WHM that never avoided Fear Itself in 5 attempts and several times ran away from hydra when it was being cast so everybody is probably getting carried and remaining terrible.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

I was DF'ing Titan for my PLD relic and I would just have some bizarre problems like having 2 DPS with relics, entire party up during heart phase, and STILL not managing to kill the damn thing. Whenever I would get a really really good group someone would start getting connection issues and constant red squiggle status and basically force us to reluctantly exit that run.

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Story of my life at the moment. -_- (Except I haven't won yet.)

Doesn't help that I just feel like a rag doll to beat up for Titan, either. In my desperation to feel useful, I created macros to announce the skill rotations for each phase and another to warn for incoming Weights/Plumes... yet people still die left and right to them. ;_;

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Originally Posted by Raminax

Story of my life at the moment. -_- (Except I haven't won yet.)

Doesn't help that I just feel like a rag doll to beat up for Titan, either. In my desperation to feel useful, I created macros to announce the skill rotations for each phase and another to warn for incoming Weights/Plumes... yet people still die left and right to them. ;_;

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I'm not going to lie, people rarely talk so I never look at my chat in Primals or Dungeons when in combat :)

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

I'm not going to lie, people rarely talk so I never look at my chat in Primals or Dungeons when in combat :)

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Reason why I added <se.1> to my plumes macro :)
And I even got blamed once because people said it was annoying and that they didn't need it (guess what? Didn't kill him that time) so yeah, that's the kind of parties you get joining DF Titan HM.

Add to that the fact that 2 tanks isn't the optimal party composition, and the chances of winning drop really low.
The sad thing is, PUGs are no better.

I have different <se.x> sounds/commands at the end of each macro as well. Most usually appreciate it, but well... Yeah. Hard to feel like it's being appreciated when you're getting your arse repeatedly kicked by Weight of the Land anyway, Mr. Black Mage. :p

You basically need 2 all-star players who can also do damage to beat Titan (you need two because if you've only 1 and that guy gets Gaoled on phase 5 then you wipe). Most of the time you won't have these two guys, and even when you do most people don't realize they've a great thing and should keep trying, and instead opt for quitting and hope for the miraculous chance you'll join another DF group with more than 2 all-star DPS.

Many, many Titan merc groups disagree. 2 people can be carried, sometimes 3 if they do manage to survive to do some damage on the heart.

Are people actually complaining about the Titan fight? I don't really realize that.
Anyways, I got carried through by my guild too, so I can get the relic as fast as possible.
Thing is, I have a lot of WoW expirience, so it wasn't THAT hard for me to learn the patterns nor the fight.
And even if not, we're doing these runs at least once a week, because anyone always needs his relic for any class. So it wasn't a problem for me either to master the fight.

Aside from that, we had the same problem. We had a bard which already had three relics, and didn't even survive till the heart phase. We just pulled her through the fight often enough, and at some point, she did it.
Sooo, you can't just ignore the fact that Titan IS in fact hard for people without any kind of MMO 'Raiding' expirience. It's the 'Hard-Mode' after all. And its all as good as it is now. If people really are complaining, I don't get it.

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Originally Posted by Yuff-Yuff

Sooo, you can't just ignore the fact that Titan IS in fact hard for people without any kind of MMO 'Raiding' expirience. It's the 'Hard-Mode' after all. And its all as good as it is now. If people really are complaining, I don't get it.

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Move out of giant red line.
Move out of circles.

difficult/10

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Originally Posted by yamface

Move out of giant red line.
Move out of circles.

difficult/10

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Aw, c'mon, now you're just exaggerating.
It's easy in theory, but I can imagine it's kinda hard for people at first. If it would be just running around it would be cool, but you have to actually know what happens, to survive the fight till the end.

( Or you're just a tank who does almost nothing )

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Originally Posted by yamface

Move out of giant red line.
Move out of circles.

difficult/10

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If you simplify it to this extent, any bullet hell shooter can be described as "move away from the bullets."

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Originally Posted by yamface

Move out of giant red line.
Move out of circles.

difficult/10

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if it was that easy for everyone why are ppl from DF still failing hard?

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Originally Posted by coffeeking

if it was that easy for everyone why are ppl from DF still failing hard?

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They don't want to learn. Continually going into the fight under geared, not memorizing the rotations, range quitting after 1 or 2 tries, and slow reflexes.

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Originally Posted by Doo

They don't want to learn. Continually going into the fight under geared, not memorizing the rotations, range quitting after 1 or 2 tries, and slow reflexes.

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It's a question of attitude. You can even go in lowgeared, as long as other party members can balance it out, and you're slightly above 3k HP.
Why do people even expect the HARD Mode to be easy. Everyone is just so spoiled.

There are 2 big reasons people fail Titan. It has little to do with gear or latency.

1. They can't dance AND perform their role in the party.

2. They plume each other / can't bait landslide after heart.

Do your party a favor and don't save yourself by killing someone else. Form a line and stay in it when you aren't dodging something. Most players prefer to strafe, and if you are using standard controls it is hard to run backwards in short order. If the last set of 3x3s is at Titan, you don't even have to move to avoid explosions until landslide is on the ground. Bait it so you don't corner anyone. Run back to the center as soon as his fist hits the ground. As a drunken FC mate once told me- "Own the middle. Make it yours".

tl;dr- You have 1 job. Do it. Work together.

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Originally Posted by Yuff-Yuff

You can even go in lowgeared, as long as other party members can balance it out, and you're slightly above 3k HP.
Why do people even expect the HARD Mode to be easy. Everyone is just so spoiled.

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You can, but a majority of players just aren't skilled enough and end up beating it only because they get carried by others. They need that extra health to stay alive and that extra dps to burn the heart.

When you make a game that is easy for the most part, it spoils players.

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Originally Posted by Yashnaheen

There are 2 big reasons people fail Titan. It has little to do with gear or latency.


2. They plume each other

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Haha, this is very common. In fact I have gotten quite used to seeing that one squanderer flailing in the back knowing that he could trap us all. Ah ignorance is blis, but you can always start to position yourself and kind of counter his movements to ensure a safe escape.

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Originally Posted by Doo

You can, but a majority of players just aren't skilled enough and end up beating it only because they get carried by others. They need that extra health to stay alive and that extra dps to burn the heart.

When you make a game that is easy for the most part, it spoils players.

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I'm just talking about possibilities here!
Also, I said some stuff about that in my previous post.

Nah I think that's alright. Because you should give everyone, no matter how few or casual they play, the chance to at least reach the end of the line.
What comes after is hard work, and difficulty most players want. I mean it's not impossible, but you still have to actually use your brain, and that's the part of an MMO that makes it actually fun. At least for me.

to success in pre 2.1 titan HM there are simply 3 criteria

1. almost flawlessly avoid titan's aoe (either by living close to the datacenter, or having under 0.5s reflexes at all time, or memorization of titan's attack patterns)
2. managing the heals (healer keep the tank and members alive, tank gets prepared for MB)
3. have enough dps to brust down titan's heart (by people who 'can't dps' but with good gear, or people who 'can dps' with minimal gear. DF=4 DPS)

a DF party can very hardly meet all 3 criteria therefore easy to fail.
those who succeeded also are more likely to have been carried by partially pre-made group

Titan HM is perfectly doable with ilvl60s, and the ilvl doesn't really have too much to do with a group's success or failure here.

I have seen way too many people, tank, heal or dps alike who spent a lot of time to collect their gears and think they are automatically the best, but in fact those gears become a complete waste on them.

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Originally Posted by Lanceton

Titan HM is perfectly doable with ilvl60s, and the ilvl doesn't really have too much to do with a group's success or failure here.

I have seen way too many people, tank, heal or dps alike who spent a lot of time to collect their gears and think they are automatically the best, but in fact those gears become a complete waste on them.

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I agree so much.

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Originally Posted by Lanceton

Titan HM is perfectly doable with ilvl60s, and the ilvl doesn't really have too much to do with a group's success or failure here.

I have seen way too many people, tank, heal or dps alike who spent a lot of time to collect their gears and think they are automatically the best, but in fact those gears become a complete waste on them.

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I've seen way more I60 and under not even make it to heart phase constantly. At least with the players that collect their gear you know that they made some sort of effort to prepare for the fight.

You can pretty much predict who is going to die first when you examine everyone before the start of the fight.

Here is my opinion about Titan Hard mode and why people in it fail !

Most of you people are looking at the topic on the wrong side!

For me main reason is that the entroduction of the Primals Hard mode is made in a wrong way and there is little explanation for it ! As a new player witch recently encounter them and passed true them i can tell you this ! So we are basicly not prepared for it at all !
Most of us after finishing the main story are taking the Relic Weapon quest witch in it is really little saied what we gona encounter exactly ! Thx to the main story scenario we get our end set of armor with the quests so i pursonaly tought that it will be similar for the weapon !

I knew that lvl 50 is the last lvl for us and i knew that from the main story we get our lvl 50 armor......how am i suppose to know that there is lvl 60 and above armor sets or that the priamals are lvl 60 and above ! I aske you here why is there a posability to have lvl 60 items when you are lvl 50, for me this is really wrong !
I passed true Ifrit easy, the fight is not hard at all jsut like the normal mode but with little more extra things the Primals do ! For Garuda was ca. the same story !

Now for Titan on witch spots i died !

1. On the later phase of titan on the Stumps, didnt have enough hp and deff....but as monk so and so i have little hp and deff !
2. The Plumps ! This need to be fixed....im the first one to get out of them in the end the other party members dont get hit but me yes ! People say i got some sort of battle lagg well fix it, im really angry when i dodge all the titans atacks and thx to such thing i die !
3.Lack of information and players witch when you ask them they dont explain you a thing but get angry and leave the fight !

I got lucky and was in a really really strong party so thx to them i passed it !