Give another job a silence move!

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

There is aoe to avoid... there is tanks not to stand in front of... there is rot to not pass... and on top of all that t2 is not on a set rotation the way t1. T1 always uses it as soon as repelling cannons is over, t2 does not.

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Ok every time I do T2 its always the same rotations for me. The way my group does the nodes/ads they tank across from each other so 97% of the time I'm on flank (except to do my BS/TS). And when we are on ADS and he uses Rot I go against the wall and ADS so I won't get blown in the mages and screw up rot passing. As for avoiding AoE drgaon kick is a nice way to get out of the way (mainly Repelling Cannon).

Don't get me wrong all MNKs may not be able to do it but if they timed out all the moves (cause all mine are in a set pattern) then its possible 100% of the time as long as the MNK doesn't get killed.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Not to mention the stance requirements and how it essentially cripples the MNK's dps to do it. Having a MNK interrupt in T2 is a bad idea all around, for sure.

To add to the conversation: I am a huge fan of "bring the player, not the class". I do not like telling someone they can't come to my raid just because we happen to need one particular class to handle a certain mechanic. It's not fair to the players, and it's stifling fight design. If you could switch classes out of combat (similar to how you can switch souls out of combat in Rift), then perhaps I'd feel differently, but you can't, so I don't.

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It's really not all that bad for MNK silence as people make it out to be. I don't even have to do it anymore, mainly did it as back up insurance so HV wouldn't go off.


I hope SE makes One Ilm Punch useful and needed for something in at least one turn when 2.2 comes.

It's funny since recently I was reading WoW decide to do away with 10 player raids in the next expansion and make them 20 because they decided they can't possibly make a fight that requires a certain class if it's limited to 10 guys (because chances are pretty good you won't have that class if you only have 10 guys). If all your players are identically geared/skilled in every class, there's no question the optimal silence rotation would consist of 2 bards, and having 2 out of 8 players have to be a specific class is simply way too specific. Sure, you'd take a monk over a bad bard, and sometimes you might not even have a second bard to work with, but that's not balanced at all.

paladin has spirits within on a 30s cooldown
bard has blunt arrow on a 30s cooldown
scholar has silent dawn on a 40s cooldown

but for the most part silence and stun are interchangeable(they even share the same DR) meaning warrior, monk, dragoon, and summoner can help with it too. all having similar skills with stun instead of silence.

But since this is pretty much all about ADS even after warrior gets buffs one of each tank will be best and coil without bard songs seems like the worst thing ever so any 8 man group should be set for it right away

I still say I liked when mages could cast whatever spell they wanted and not be locked out globally. Even if it's only set to a support class, honestly..this whole generic "every ability can debuff" just really doesn't fit in the long run. ACN was a good start, but just look at THM's original spell list:

http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/abilitylist.html?class=22 (has 1.2x's skills mixed in too) and even conjurer: http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/abilitylist.html?class=23

So more silence abilities? Probably when Blue Mage comes in given just how many monster abilities seem to stun us or silence us (and the fact they can actually cast silence...)

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/abilitylist.html?class=22 (has 1.2x's skills mixed in too) and even conjurer: http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/abilitylist.html?class=23

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This is better (without mixed skills from 1.2x)
http://www.ffxivorigin.com/db/thaumaturge-abilities/
http://www.ffxivorigin.com/db/conjurer-abilities/

Would be nice if off-GCD abilities were actually usable on the fly and not forced to wait until a previous animation finishes. -.-

WTB RDM with silence, and dispel (that removes enemy buffs) and refresh for MP regen! =D

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

There is aoe to avoid... there is tanks not to stand in front of... there is rot to not pass... and on top of all that t2 is not on a set rotation the way t1. T1 always uses it as soon as repelling cannons is over, t2 does not.

EDIT: Btw pld and bard can pretty much ignore all that stuff and silence at the same time. Mnk can't.

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What?
the AoE is easily avoided and you'd still be able to silence ADS right after that.
It takes practice of course, you can't sent a monk in and expect him to execute it perfectly but after a while it's so easy...
I don't see how a Bard would be more useful there, Monks deal more damage even while dealing with silence and AoEs.
If anything goes wrong you can use Perfect Balance to get that silence in, you have to get ready to silence pretty much after every 3rd rotation.
Besides, we have to watch our aggro anyway so why not go on silence duty?

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Originally Posted by Altheras

WTB RDM with silence, and dispel (that removes enemy buffs) and refresh for MP regen! =D

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Also want red mage with skills like this. : ]

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Originally Posted by Atreides

If anything goes wrong you can use Perfect Balance to get that silence in, you have to get ready to silence pretty much after every 3rd rotation.

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Perfect balance doesn't give you Opo-opo form bonus.

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

There is aoe to avoid... there is tanks not to stand in front of... there is rot to not pass... and on top of all that t2 is not on a set rotation the way t1. T1 always uses it as soon as repelling cannons is over, t2 does not.

EDIT: Btw pld and bard can pretty much ignore all that stuff and silence at the same time. Mnk can't.

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Umm what? PLD has to dodge AoEs too BRD is ranged and they don't have much to worry about. As for MNK I've already said none of what you said is a problem and We're still able to maintain silence.

So Dodge AoE MNK still gets AotD off for HV, Why would any monk ever stand in front of the mob?? Always Flank and Rear, I don't understand "there is rot to not pass" what's that???? If you mean that we have to worry about Rot then no because the 5 other members in the party can pass that back and forth.

Having a mnk silence is stupidly last result. Not only does the mnk have to keep in opopo and time it right for HV it's so not trivial after the nodes get eaten and he starts spamming aoes. Unlike brds (and worse case pld) the mnk can fail more by being losing form due timing, but also lower damage output and dodging aoes. (the last part when skills over lap is super tight)

And you have all that TP eaten by trying to preserve the opopo form (the mnk has to rely on non mnk skills like ID, fracture, etc)

Then you have rot...you can't have a mnk pass rot and silence duty, but you can have a brd on silence and rot duty, and a pld will never have rot duty.

It's good on paper, but bad in execution. It's a stupid last resort that only happens in forums.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

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Its nowhere near as bad as your making out..

I really don't want all jobs to become the exact same class but with different ability animations/names.

Did you really call Selene gimp? Hahahaha...

Giving everyone a silence/interrupt is far from homogenizing the classes. If anything, it would go a long ways in giving everyone more responsibility while giving devs the option of making fights harder by requiring something be interrupted. Not only something being interrupted, but have the boss do said move at RANDOM intervals and not the same interval every time. So in short, everyone having an interrupt only improves things.

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Originally Posted by Genesiser

Giving everyone a silence/interrupt is far from homogenizing the classes.

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Disagree. WoW starts to homogenizing the classess after Woltk, it is just a chaos and disappointment. Each class lost its uniqueness and massive complains. It only improves Blizzard dev's quality of life because they can just being lazy in entire class balancing.

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Originally Posted by Tribunus

Its nowhere near as bad as your making out..

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Depends on your resets for T2. T1 is easy since he does not have anything special. T2, is a completely different beast, and no mnk should be doing it (because you'll want to just find another brd).

The more damage you put in the more ads resets his priority list, the more nodes he eats, the more priority is changed. So if you're waiting for HV, and he's overlapping 3x aoe (depending on your route), you are in seriously trouble of loosing stance, or GL, or worse, too far.

The mnk towards the end is basically standing there with opopo that may or may not work, because anything mnk can do (except LB) a brd can do better!

Also Arm of the destoryer is also an aoe, not a target. You can potentially be lagged and have it out of range

Silence was never a blm move, if you want to give them anything it would be a stun

There's a rather big difference between 'can' and 'should'. A monk definitely can silence, but that doesn't mean they should. Usually you've one silencing because you can't find anyone else and you can't be picky, but if your monk doing the silence is also identically geared as a bard, you'd be crazy to not want him to switch to a bard instead.

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Originally Posted by ufufu

Did you really call Selene gimp? Hahahaha...

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Selene is gimp. So is Eos, Garuda, Ifrit, Titan, Topaz Carbuncle...Scholars..White Mages..Paladins...Warriors.....

...See where I'm going with this? :D

PLD - Spirits Within (off GCD)
SCH - Silent Dusk (Selene pet- Instant, off GCD)
BRD - Blunt Arrow
MNK - Arm of the Destroyer (AoE, Opo-Opo form)

Do we really need more?

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Having a mnk silence is stupidly last result. Not only does the mnk have to keep in opopo and time it right for HV it's so not trivial after the nodes get eaten and he starts spamming aoes. Unlike brds (and worse case pld) the mnk can fail more by being losing form due timing, but also lower damage output and dodging aoes. (the last part when skills over lap is super tight)

And you have all that TP eaten by trying to preserve the opopo form (the mnk has to rely on non mnk skills like ID, fracture, etc)

Then you have rot...you can't have a mnk pass rot and silence duty, but you can have a brd on silence and rot duty, and a pld will never have rot duty.

It's good on paper, but bad in execution. It's a stupid last resort that only happens in forums.

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The one melee DPS (MNK) doesn't have to pass rot around unless you have 2 melee, There is enough people beside the 2 tanks and the melee to pass around rot. Trust me cause my group does it every week and I never have to deal with it. I just hop on the other side between ADS and the wall so I wont get blown back in the mages/ranged DPS. If you add AotD in your rotation you can never fail unless your dead.


Yah its easy for BRDs and PLDs to worry about silence cause its off GCD. But to say that MNK can't do it is just wrong and sad especially since you have a MNK.


Sorry if I'm getting offensive But people rag on MNK way to much and give us a bad name. I think if people learned how to play their class correctly we wouldn't have half the issues.

The 2 easiest jobs to play effectively otherwise are the ones with the most stun/silence responsibility when content calls for it.

I don't see a problem here.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

PLD - Spirits Within (off GCD)
SCH - Silent Dusk (Selene pet- Instant, off GCD)
BRD - Blunt Arrow
MNK - Arm of the Destroyer (AoE, Opo-Opo form)

Do we really need more?

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My thoughts exact, why do we need more classes with silence. Every class not having silence means you have to utilize other classes for content, if every class had a silence all parties would roll with something stupid like 4 blm or 4 drg. As for those that want blm to silence, I just have no comment on just how stupid that is.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Perfect balance doesn't give you Opo-opo form bonus.

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It does not give you any form, you got that right.
However, you're wrong with the bonus part. It takes away the requirement to be in a form and lets you use all your abilities with their full potential as if you're in that form.
You can try it out, use PB and silence some mobs a few times in a row.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

because anything mnk can do (except LB) a brd can do better!

Also Arm of the destoryer is also an aoe, not a target. You can potentially be lagged and have it out of range

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I want to see a bard that can come even close to the damage a decent monk can do.
I've been silencing ADS for a while now and can still maintain a working rotation, if shit hits the fan I'll call for brd Silence early enough for him to react, always worked out.
The AoE lag you mentioned also never happened in one of our runs. :/

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Originally Posted by Genjisamurai

gimp fairy

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Ahahaha.

Ahahahahahahahahahahaha.

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Originally Posted by WiseWolfHolo

My thoughts exact, why do we need more classes with silence. Every class not having silence means you have to utilize other classes for content, if every class had a silence all parties would roll with something stupid like 4 blm or 4 drg. As for those that want blm to silence, I just have no comment on just how stupid that is.

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Sigh... they arent good enough to replace a bard doing them. I hate running coil and leaving people out because we need certain jobs over others. I never said make all the jobs have silence moves. Either they make the Silence for monks and sch on par with bard and pally or give another job an option to Silence as good as a bard.

How is it stupid for a MAGE to use a silence move which is a debuff? Alot of stuff in this game doesnt follow the lores anyway...

A good coil static will have multiple jobs available to clear the content so worst case scenario you swap to a two bard set up for Turn 2 then move on with the rest. While this is not viable for everyone they have to consider the long term when this becomes the norm. Sort of how we swap to tanks and healers for Turn 3 sheerly for the survivability when racing to the bottom. However I'm not adverse to them adding more silence moves, though honestly most of them are not spells but abilities so what am I silencing? I'm fairly certain ADS does not have a mouth.

Turn all interrupts into Stun and problem solved as many jobs can stun w/o taking a hit to DPS. Since giving PLD two stuns would be OP turn Sprits Within into something more useful like a short def/m.def down effect on the mob or the like.