What is 30 mind for a healer ?

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You're not wrong in dungeons you outgear. You are wrong in terms of raids and Coil. You will not have much time to DPS once you enter Coil. Eos cannot keep up with the healing in 8-man content and above. More targets, more GCDs, more room for error.

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Yup I was only making a reference to dungeons, not raids. I'm not quite there yet.

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Originally Posted by Taerra

Correct me if I'm wrong but, I would surmise that SCH has more free time to DPS compared to WHM due to the fairy?

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Are you really expecting me as a Scholar to DPS in Coil T4 on the dreadnaught? NO. You're going to expect me to heal the tank so he doesn't die. You don't have alot of time to DPS in coil. I mean you can, but there's people getting hit and taking damage all the time. Not like garuda where you can pop off rotations. Or Titan where you have time. SCH has the same amount of time to DPS as WHM does. The fairy is just an illusion to make it seem like SCH heals less than whm does.

Read above, this is for non-raid content.

Well in that case not really, because whm has bigger heals. So you can DPS and then give the tank a big heal. As opposed to relying on the fairy to heal while you spam DOT's.

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Originally Posted by Rymis

So has anyone actually tested the attribute points for SCH to see if there is a soft cap?

Because if there is then going full mind is a waste, you could just do put some in piety or int to fully get the benefits of the points.
It sucks that with full mind I heal 900+ with Physick and Lustrate for 1200-1400 (depending on tank) when WHM can heal 1400 on a normal Cure II <--- and thats a WHM with full DL and relic +1 (I have i90 head+body+gloves and +1 weapon)

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Honestly 900 HP is low for how much i90 gear you have. Cure and Physick have the same potency and mine are over 1k HP and you are better geared than I am.

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Originally Posted by Zer0mr

Well in that case not really, because whm has bigger heals. So you can DPS and then give the tank a big heal. As opposed to relying on the fairy to heal while you spam DOT's.

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SCH can literally afk almost an entire (non speedrun) dungeon run and let fairy heal, with exception for maybe Leeches. Fairy healing is more than sufficient.

I'm a Scholar and I DPS on phase 3 dread and phase 4 mobs.
Back to the topic.
relic +1
405 MND - adlo 637-670 , physick 846-893
435 MND - adlo 676-715 , physick 902-953.
Short answer is yes.
The long answer lies in your accessories.
If i90's then its ok to be pure vit because you'll have tons of mind.
If i70 vit melded HQ's then it's pure mind because you won't need any more vit than that.
I used to run AK and WP with only fairy heals. I was pure vit back then cause i needed it for Titan HM. I only needed to adloquim and lustrate for bosses and big pulls. 80% of the time i was on cleric stance.
So for non-raid content my vote goes to pure mind. Heck any stat is ok. Go pure dex so your heals won't miss :p (obvious troll)
For end game stuff however you have to devote yourself to a class.
Sure you can be a jack of all trades but you'll never be as optimized as "that guy".
Notice I didn't mention INT? That's cause if you're using both SMN and SCH you'll need VIT or MND more.

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Originally Posted by Aedra

30MND ~ 40-50 hp per Cure I & Physick (@400 potency)

ignore the post about 1MND = 1HP.

Most of the data test with Cure I & Physick as these 2 spells share same potency.

You can also look in the very very old post about this topic.

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Sorry that I didn't make this clear in my first post. Bolded for emphasis:

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Originally Posted by YuriRamona

Every 1 MND increases your Cure I about 1 HP (and Cure II a little over 2 HP). MND scales up with weapon damage, and so the better your weapon, the more HP cured that MND gives.

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The 1:1 ratio holds true for weapons that are ilvl 50-55. See below for the actual impact for a more likely scenario:

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Originally Posted by j0shst3r

relic +1
405 MND - adlo 637-670 , physick 846-893
435 MND - adlo 676-715 , physick 902-953.

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Whereas it would normally be a 30-35 HP increase, it jumps to 50-60 HP with an ilvl 90 weapon (which should be obvious).

so blms are getting more utility ( from the producer live x ) but nothing for smn ... hmm this smells like a use blm instead of smn, yay more mind for sch ? lol

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Originally Posted by Taerra

so blms are getting more utility ( from the producer live x ) but nothing for smn ... hmm this smells like a use blm instead of smn, yay more mind for sch ? lol

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Implying Summoner has no utility with Virus/Eye, as with all mage jobs at the moment?

I did 15 int and 15 mnd on my arcanist. I changed it to 30 mnd and havent see a huge difference. But my dps on the smn was realy lower. So I respec again with 15/15. Don't know the impact for 30 points tough.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

SCH can literally afk almost an entire (non speedrun) dungeon run and let fairy heal, with exception for maybe Leeches. Fairy healing is more than sufficient.

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(Depending on the rest of your party) This is absolutely true. Quite frequently these days, I find myself pushing the limits of my fairy AI and going the entire dungeon casting less than 5 cures. As mentioned before, this does not include speed-run content but DPS is not out of the question here either. WP final boss I cure on because Adloquium, but in AK I can go some runs in cleric stance the entire way (Demon Wall makes things interesting). The most I do is the occasional Lustrate because the tank falls below 3k but usually I don't have to worry.

Healing is so situational, you can get away with dumping 30 points into something else and still do your job just fine.

But for a Raid group, I'd prefer if everyone maximized their potential whether if made a real difference or not.

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Implying Summoner has no utility with Virus/Eye, as with all mage jobs at the moment?

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assumptions ? nice ... no i was just stating about new toys, not existing one. BTW I use eye and virus on both smn and blm ... not sure where you're pulling that sentence from ... I was implying new additions, new toys.

well to echo to others testimonies, the +30 mind seems to make a noticeable difference. Did not record the hard numbers, but it seemed between 30-50 per physick.

I got fed up with this, so I chucked SMN out the window, built a stardust +1 for my dps needs and respected MIND for SCH. So far it works well.

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Originally Posted by Taerra

so blms are getting more utility ( from the producer live x ) but nothing for smn ... hmm this smells like a use blm instead of smn, yay more mind for sch ? lol

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Summoner can battle rez - the only non healer that can do so. If the mana from doing so is an issue they can swap a few Festers (300 potency w/3 dots up) for Energy Drain (150 potency). Battle rez is worth a lot in terms of utility a job brings to the party.

Granted, people shouldn't be dying... but not every fight is done flawlessly. Their Eye for an Eye and Virus are also slightly better versions of what BLM can use. Both casters do feel a bit light on the utility. BLM has Lethargy, but the Heavy is essentially pointless and most high level stuff is immune to slow and SMN applies Slow far more effectively with Shadowflare anyway, which is quite useful for enemies it can effect. I notice a difference on SCH if I forget to Shadowflare a group of enemies while running dungeons. BLM also has Apocatastasis, but it's incredibly situational and fairly worthless the majority of time. Sleep generally stops being useful past 4 mans that you're not overgeared (undergeared, really) for.

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Originally Posted by Taerra

so blms are getting more utility ( from the producer live x ) but nothing for smn ... hmm this smells like a use blm instead of smn, yay more mind for sch ? lol

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considering that BLM's utility is Freeze (which is just tri-disaster that you can aim), apocastasis (so situational it's not even funny, and actually COMPLETELY pointless if youre solo), sleep (which you MUST be co-ordinated to use effectively) (and is only better than a WHM's repose thanks to being AoE), and "MURDER! ALL OF THE MURDER!", whilst SMN get virus/fever, E4aE, can rez in combat, an AoE slow that lasts for 30 seconds and doesn't build immunity, tri-disaster, a pocket tank, two pets with stuns, an instant cast blind, and a debuff that causes 50% reduced healing, all whilst being the king of cleaves thanks to bane, and still being able to pull great DPS. I'd say that BLM's kinda NEED a utility buff, at the moment, being the god of AoE is all they really have.

I actually like that this is a somewhat meaningful choice you have to make. I'm glad it's not gamebreaking, but meaningful. I also like that jobs are different - if every job is equivalent in everyway what's the point?

Assuming Cnj gets a DPS Caster job, I will have three choices;
1: Mind for Whm
2: Int for Geo (or whatever)
3: piety/vit/something that benefits both

X: respec



Honestly, for leveling, I've split the points up. At low levels for soloing I desperately needed HPs and put my first several points in Vit... frankly it's served me well in dungeons as I learn the mechanics, and deal with tanks that can't hold aggro. Last run I joined in progress the tank was at 7 hps when I ran to him... so I do see the value in every point.

Just out of curiosity I parsed my Scholar+Fairy with ilvl 70-90 gear with 30 MND and then with 30 VIT doing Physick + Embrace for 2 minutes

30 MND = 586 Heals p/sec
30 VIT = 554 Heals p/sec

The 80 heals per double cast isn't that much especially when you have Lustrate and are likely stacking crit rate.

Another thing to remember is that when the PvP arena comes out you are going to get focused and dropped very fast (depends on how it works but that's normally how arena fights go from my memory) so more tankiness is never bad as you can't heal from the floor.

First I have to say, I dislike those bonus points with a passion. The moment that you give players choice you've created a situation where there is an "optimal choice". So either you let the player gimp themselves or the choice is so minor as to have no real impact of any value. Ultimately someone is going to break down the numbers and come up with the "right" choice to the question, and at that point there was no reason to even bother giving the choice to begin with!

That being said, I didn't feel like choosing so I went VIT, 450HP sounded nice for the moments when I screw up and I haven't really felt any particular need to change since.

EDIT: Correction. I'm 15 vit/15mnd at the moment

Through my own testing I've found 30 MND to be cause my heals to range from 650-680. With 30 VIT I heal for 620-650. The only reason I'm specced VIT though is because I don't hit the 4.1k HP threshold required for T5. However, even with 30 VIT I've cleared T1-T4 easily and haven't had trouble healing T5 yet.

I'm the weirdo that did 30 piety. Honestly, I've found it very useful. Passive mana regen(2% of max mana) and aetherflow(20%) adds up in longer fights with 30 extra piety. I rarely use Enegry Drain, leaving my with more aetherflow charges for Lustrate and Sacred Soils.

Summoner I find the 30 piety less useful, but it does come in handy when I raise people in raids or cover in heals when a healer is getting back on his feet from being raised.

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Originally Posted by Klive

I'm the weirdo that did 30 piety. Honestly, I've found it very useful. Passive mana regen(2% of max mana) and aetherflow(20%) adds up in longer fights with 30 extra piety. I rarely use Enegry Drain, leaving my with more aetherflow charges for Lustrate and Sacred Soils.

Summoner I find the 30 piety less useful, but it does come in handy when I raise people in raids or cover in heals when a healer is getting back on his feet from being raised.

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While this is pretty neat, in most Raids you will have a bard who can just sing Mana song along with Battle voice you'll be topped up in 30seconds or so. Still pretty neat :D

VIT is still winning for me simply because of Turn 5.

I try to be self sufficient.

If I need the bard to lower his dps or I need to use Energy Drains for me to heal, I failed as a scholar. If I do have a bard with mana song, I know I can be more liberal with my heals, but I never rely on there being a bard. Heck, I carry a supply of ethers and elixirs for just in case.

Mind scales with Weapon DMG, Determination and Critical Rating, which in the long term will outweigh you putting it into 30 Vit, if you need HP Craftable ilvl 70s are there for you sides you don't need more than 4.3k HP in PT to do the hardest content in game. 2 Craftable ilvl 70s accessories should cover 20 Vit itself already, and normally people would go 3 Craftable ilvl 70s accessories as healers which should cover all your Vit woes.

This thread is interesting and very helpful...all comments :)

I did 20 MIND, and 6 PEITY and 4 VIT...and looks like it won't make too much difference in the end....when kitted out, and with the buffs....I am healing 800-1200+ currently in my Lv50 runs (depending on buffs and state of gear). Guess can only get better when I start getting DL and Relic? :P (I'm still in my WHM gear with a LV50 weapon)

I had a momment where I thought I had messed up my WHM with not putting all 30 on it...but actually, seems it is not so bad afterall...

And I like it that there are Healers out there that are all a little different......