I love the game, but... Titan

Hey OP,

I am also from Faerie. I should be running Titan for my 5th relic later this week, so feel free to tag along if you still need it by then.

Add me on friend list so I don't forget. ^_^

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Originally Posted by Jyoeru

Mighty tempted. I could do some upper 40 runs, convert materia, make a few hundred k, and just buy my kill. But when does it stop? Turn 1? Turn 2? Crystal Tower?

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It stops with titan because there's no carrying in coil. It could be possible to carry one person in coil but I haven't seen it done yet. 7-man coil would require the group to be quite stacked. Besides, each character can only do coil once a week so if a group decides to do a carry, they can only carry one person per week.

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Originally Posted by Kirhs

snip-

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Well of course, everyone know to save Swiftcast for double AOE heals during Tumults. Ideally no one will get hit with avoidable attacks but some people do and sometimes you need to pick up their slack. It depends on the situation, you may not even need to use Swiftcast for Tumults. I've played both SCH and WHM, and no Swiftcast is needed when 2 or more of these following buffs/debuffs are up. Virus, Eye for an Eye, Rain of Death, Sacred Soil, Mantra, Fey etc. along with a well timed AOE pre-heals (shield from SCH and even better if the Succor crits) and everyone in group has more than 3.4k or higher.

Some players would pick a bad time to get up after a raise, anyways Swiftcast is not necessary for double AOE heals for Tumult, you just need to be aware of whats going no and don't tunnel vision. Hell some groups even stun Tumults nowadays.

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Originally Posted by OmegaFlare

It stops with titan because there's no carrying in coil. It could be possible to carry one person in coil but I haven't seen it done yet. 7-man coil would require the group to be quite stacked. Besides, each character can only do coil once a week so if a group decides to do a carry, they can only carry one person per week.

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Its already begun on my server :(

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Originally Posted by Yurikitty

/puts on flame suit

Ok this is where my problems with the LS and the FC system come in. OP is in a FC, FC is obviously not helping him out. They are social. Thats a linkshell! Linkshells are for social!! Not FC's! Why, why does no one seem to understand this? If you need to go through Titan and CT and Coil you need a FC. Your social group obviously aint cutting it. That was never the intention of the Devs for FC use. But no, everyone and there brother has to have there own FC, and this right here is what happens. My advice to you is get a real FC. Linkshells = social FC = Titan. Simple.

Also, you might want to get your Thurm up to 26 for swift cast. As a whm you should have this, it is helpful in fights like Titan for multiple reasons besides raise. Your tanks taking mountain buster to the face will thank you for it.

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FCs, and linkshells, are what you make of them.

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Originally Posted by Klingsan

Well, if you ever decide to move to Excalibur for whatever reason, I will try and help you out with this fight, and no, I will obviously not charge you for it, just good ol fashion helping people out that deserves it. But yeah, can't do much cross server ;)

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I could use some help with my titan haha, I have done it with my whm and warrior but my monk can't seem to find a good group :P

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Originally Posted by NoctisCaelus

Some people might not agree with me but if you're spending that much time on Titan and you can't beat it, you might as well buy a run and get it over with. If you make this amount of money in less time than your attempt to beat Titan, in a way, you're saving time which is also saving money even if you buy Titan.

Hope this helps but like I said, some people might not agree with me. I thought this was going to be another "I love the game but I'm quitting because so and so."

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I think this points to a broken game, if something is so difficult (or bugged) that you have to pay people to help you though it. I'm all about practice, gearing etc to progress, but I think in REQUIRED battles, any average+ skilled pug group should be able to be successful, after a few tries. Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Heo

Hey OP,

I am also from Faerie. I should be running Titan for my 5th relic later this week, so feel free to tag along if you still need it by then.

Add me on friend list so I don't forget. ^_^

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^ This. The other thing you can do is post a note on the Faerie forum asking for help from people who know the fight or find other people who just need others who can dodge.

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Originally Posted by Slickpig

I think this points to a broken game, if something is so difficult (or bugged) that you have to pay people to help you though it. I'm all about practice, gearing etc to progress, but I think in REQUIRED battles, any average+ skilled pug group should be able to be successful, after a few tries. Just my opinion.

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Its not required. You don't need a relic to beat the story or to do anything other than coil.

Titan is easy...

I've killed him in the DF twice and I've sold it for at least 25 kills and I have killed him probably 100 times. And I've tanked and dpsed it.

Everything happens in the same order, all you need to do is memorize the fight and you can go without getting hit by a single thing.

http://i.imgur.com/UbacDrh.gif

When we sell titan, if we can't find buyers, we give away free runs (probably why we can't find buyers).

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Originally Posted by Slickpig

I think this points to a broken game, if something is so difficult (or bugged) that you have to pay people to help you though it. I'm all about practice, gearing etc to progress, but I think in REQUIRED battles, any average+ skilled pug group should be able to be successful, after a few tries. Just my opinion.

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The fight isnt too difficult or bugged, most players just lack the patience to LEARN the fight, especially after 50 levels of easy mode.

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Originally Posted by Slickpig

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Agree, I have all the relics and I've earned each one of them ten folds. Most were obtained from PUG wins (6 of 9) and I still beat Titan on a daily basis since September. There was a time when my FC took me in as a DPS WAR along with another WAR that also needed the win. Mid-fight I realized that I'm pretty much being carried and was hoping for a wipe and I'm glad we did. I offered to change to SCH and get the other WAR's win and then just go back afterwards to get my win. Best part about it was, our BLM d/c'd from the start and so we 7 manned it from the start without 3 limit break bars. Not like we needed it or it makes the fight harder, I was just glad that we wiped when I was on DPS WAR and earned my relic by doing what I'm supposed to do on WAR(tank).

Screenshot: http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7133/lvmo.png

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Originally Posted by Oblit

Well of course, everyone know to ..... snip.

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This is great except that generally speaking if the group is doing all this, they are not having problems with Titan. The mountain buster to stomps to plumes is the most difficult part of p5 for a whm simply from the non avoidable damage. So for a new or struggling whm having a fast cast medica for those times when the above mentioned skills have not been used is immensely beneficial.

A professional group can run titan with the whm bored from the lack of healing reqired but this post isn't about that.

Sure fire way to beat Titan:

1. Start Titan group
2. Ensure all joiners are geared well
3. Ensure all joiners are patient
4. If any one player continues to not learn from their mistakes, remove them politely.
5. Keep going until your core group is strong enough/can learn enough to win.

It might seem harsh, but you can beat Titan even if you fall fowl of the AOE issues. You just need to learn the rotations and preempt.

The reason Titan is hard is because many players try without learning the rotation, or simply do not learn from their mistakes. If you try to carry these people you'll have an extremely frustrating time.

If you feel bad about this, if you want I help those who can't learn, then wait until you've got Titan down and search for players with similar experience and mindsets and build a core group to aid/carry.

While you're learning, you cannot carry those who refuse to/can't seem to learn.

My wife and I are in the same boat.
Ask FC/LS no one wants to do it.

DF seems to fail only got past the heart 2 times in about 15 parties.
Our Gear sets are all Darklight or better. And well we are leveling alt jobs there is a point when if we can't finish content we will need to move on to another game.

Also don't have time to build a party over 3-4 hour just to have it fail because really your hitting the lotto as much with prebuilt as you are with DF.

few days ago my friend needed titan for his PLD, he got me and another friend in party, shouted once or twice in Mor Dhona, got pt filled in less than 3 minutes with randoms, we went in without saying anything and killed first try.

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Originally Posted by Kirhs

Swiftcast generally won't be used on plumes. Most likely if someone is hit on p5 its a one shot. What it is exceptional for is getting an emergency heal off during stomps p5 so you don't fall behind before plumes fire off. Especially if the tank takes a big mountain buster hit or you're a bit late on a cast. It smooths over a rotation.

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I use it for a Medica II right at the start of every stomp. Swiftcast's CD is up like clockwork for each one, and the AoE hot pretty much negates any following stomp damage. If need be, I follow up with a Medica, which depending on how fast I am with it, I can sometimes get off even before Titan follows up with WotL. Granted, this is a strategy I had to develop after basically being forced to solo heal 90% of the fight. xD It also means rezing is a no-go on my end, but then, nobody should be dying in the first place.

If you can't find or put a group together that's capable of doing Titan, you are going to have the same difficulty finding a group for coil.

It sounds much more like a lack of determination on your part. You could either buy a run, or you could spend the time to make your own group of people that you know aren't bad, that you can coach through all the mechanics and get them experience and down it after some practice.

If you don't want to spend the time making the money, or building the group and getting people experience, that's your problem and not a fault of the game. The point is you're not going about this the right way, you are looking to be carried. You want to be able to join a group that's 7/8 people and will go in and one shot it. It's not going to happen.

Titan is not hard, it's only hard by association when compared to everything else in the game to that point.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

Also don't have time to build a party over 3-4 hour just to have it fail because really your hitting the lotto as much with prebuilt as you are with DF.

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DF has two tanks, which means you're gimped from the start. There is also no gear check, so many times people simply won't have good enough stats.

Beating Titan will likely take a few hours of trying. You need the patience, and you need to commit to it AS A GROUP. This is why someone taking charge and ensuring the party is committed is almost essential.

I guarantee you, you are more likely to win if you take the time to build and manage a shout group than spamming the DF. You will probably waste more time in DF overall anyway.

quick question, are titan's attacks elementally based on earth? I'm just wondering whether applying a crapton of earth materia on your accessories might help mitigate some of his damage?

I was in your boat for about a week OP.

What I ended up doing was making my own Titan run and inviting everyone who wanted to go, regardless of gear or experience. A straight up learning run, where nobody would get kicked out no matter how bad they might screw up.

A couple hours later we had broken the heart a few times and gotten some good practice at Phase 5. We parted ways without a win, but with a ton of experience.

Beating Titan goes in this progression:

>N00b: You screw up, eat landslides, and die to plumes every single time. (you'll spend 5 or 6 runs like this)

>Newb: You can dodge landslides, but still get hit by single plumes regularly. You're starting to get the pacing of the fight but still not acting fast enough. (you'll be here for 5 or 6 more runs)

>Average: You can dodge landslides and 80% of plumes. And you can avoid the first two bomb patterns. Maybe you kill the heart and maybe you don't. Lots of people stuck here (10-20 runs). This is where you find out if you need better gear or not. Most DF runs will stall here.

>Improved: You can dodge all the landslides and all the initial plumes. You know the first two bomb patterns by heart and can usually break Titan's heart, but you die early in Phase 5 to the huge plumes, new bomb pattern, and small arena. (5-10 runs) At this stage you're starting to really memorize how the fight goes.

>Skilled: You can handle everything up til Phase 5 without any trouble, and you're learning to move pre-emptively to keep the plumes out from under you and how to dodge the new bombs. You still get hit once in a while, but you can get Titan down to 30% or below with regularity. Sounds like you're here (5-6 more runs).

>Master: You can avoid it all. Plumes, Bombs, Landslides. Nothing touches you except Tumults unless you're having bad lag or get unlucky (boxed in by Landslide as bombs go off around you, say). If it were a solo fight you could ace it. This is where you'll end up with practice. You're here or almost here.

>Ragequit: Now you need seven other Masters to party with, and none of them can be lagging. (1-Infinity attempts). Pure dumb luck of the team that you join. This is what held me back from a win for so long (25+ attempts for me). And I went through the early stages a little faster than most. I probably killed him after 40 total attempts.

Titan sucks, but there's a definite feeling of accomplishment when you beat him. He is, as the Internets would say, "Nintendo Hard." If it weren't for him and maybe Hydra, getting a relic weapon would be trivially easy. Once your whole FC or LS has beaten him, going back and doing it again will get easier and easier until he IS trivial. I remember thinking when I first started him "This is BULLSHIT! Nobody could do this! It's WAY TOO HARD FFS!"

But he really isn't, looking back on it. Getting good enough, knowing your moves enough, and being able to predict his movements are important skills in the game. Clearing Titan legitly will absolutely make you a better player.

Don't give up OP.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

quick question, are titan's attacks elementally based on earth? I'm just wondering whether applying a crapton of earth materia on your accessories might help mitigate some of his damage?

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They are, and it does. Theres a WAR tank in one of my shells who crafted a set of gear overloaded with earth materia. He said it reduced most of titans attacks by 25-30% Could be an expensive adventure for one fight tho.

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Originally Posted by Lstkaws

So honest question, what is the best way to go and why?

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I'd go with +1 1st so you can take advantage of the increased healing potency. I am unsure of %, but I believe it makes a bigger difference than a chest piece. Plus the fact you would need to get a Vanya/Rosegold for the head, and I don't think the OP would have the funds for that yet. I also don't like spell speed much, so that's another reason for me. Though, if I got a head piece from coil then I'd very much consider it. lol

Personally, I'd get pants after getting +1 as I know I won't be doing turn 5 any time soon. Then maybe followed by boots, unless I was lucky enough to get some from coil. (Even if they have spell speed.)

Really though, it depends a lot on the individual and luck.

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Originally Posted by NoctisCaelus

Some people might not agree with me but if you're spending that much time on Titan and you can't beat it, you might as well buy a run and get it over with. If you make this amount of money in less time than your attempt to beat Titan, in a way, you're saving time which is also saving money even if you buy Titan.

Hope this helps but like I said, some people might not agree with me. I thought this was going to be another "I love the game but I'm quitting because so and so."

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I disagree. This is a video game. The whole point of it is clearing the challenges, not skipping through them. What will he do when he's out of content?

What I did was start a LS called "people good at titan". Made my own pugs, and I added to the LS those players who performed well. Eventually I had enough to consistently form very good pugs for titan.

And thaaat's how you clear titan without a FC. Waiting for the stars to align and get 8 random people on point isn't very likely.

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Originally Posted by Nahara

This is probably your best bet: find a static group of people to run with and continue to work on it with them. A static group that can practice on it will have a better time beating it than a random group who aren't used to each other. Once you beat Titan that first time, you'll feel he gets easier since you and your team are more used to the mechanics of the fight, which will make it much easier for you all when it comes time to work on other relics.

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I agree, try to get a group together...maybe make a Linkshell and keep running it with them. Even if they're not really experienced, if they keep working on it...they'll probably start to do better and better until you guys beat it. And if you decide to buy a run, who cares.

I rarely get hit by anything...and I'm always the last one standing, its really frustrating. I still think either the cast time for plumes is a little too short, or the area is a little too big.

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

They are, and it does. Theres a WAR tank in one of my shells who crafted a set of gear overloaded with earth materia. He said it reduced most of titans attacks by 25-30% Could be an expensive adventure for one fight tho.

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Expensive perhaps, but it would be great for helping others running titan, not to mention for people who are having a hard time falling against titan HM, this could help give them an edge.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

DF seems to fail only got past the heart 2 times in about 15 parties. we are leveling alt jobs there is a point when if we can't finish content we will need to move on to another game.
Also don't have time to build a party over 3-4 hour.

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If you are balking at putting together a party cause it might take you a few hours you are in the wrong game. Putting together a good party = 2 hours, being stuck on titan and not being able to progress, whats 2 hours at that point? This fight was done with 8 people in relics and binkis. It is not hard. Even as a healer. And OP, seriously man, you need to upgrade those accessories. As whms our cures are tied to our gear. You want your cures to hit for high numbers and you need that mana pool to be as fat as possible. Healers are the key to this fight, help yourself, make your gear as good as it can get. Or come to Midgard where we have a FC dedicated to running people though for fun.

People still struggle with titan? Its a stupid easy fight when all you need to know is the order his abilities drop and whether to stack or spread for plumes after heart phase.

Pro Titan TIP #1:

When the clover/cross bombs come out, have everyone besides the tank stand on one of the bombs at the end of the cross. e.g.

A__S___A
_X____X_
__X__X__
S__XX__S
__X__X__
_X____X_
A___S__A

A's are boms at the of of the cross and S's are safe spots. If everyone stands in an S then the chances are that titan will Landslide a Safe Spot causing people to move in a pinch and often times die to a bomb exploding.
So what you do is "BAIT" the landslide. The A's (end bombs on the cross) blow up last and titan landslides before they blow up. So if all the people in the group stand on an A, titan will landslide an A (a non safe spot) then you run into a Safe spot to avoid the landslide and not get hit by a bomb.

The cricle bombs are the same way, you just stand near the last bomb to go down and when he landslides that the first bomb will have exploded, so you run there.

[QUOTE=Yurikitty;1575172]/puts on flame suit

Ok this is where my problems with the LS and the FC system come in. OP is in a FC, FC is obviously not helping him out. They are social. Thats a linkshell! Linkshells are for social!! Not FC's! Why, why does no one seem to understand this? If you need to go through Titan and CT and Coil you need a FC. Your social group obviously aint cutting it. That was never the intention of the Devs for FC use. But no, everyone and there brother has to have there own FC, and this right here is what happens. My advice to you is get a real FC. Linkshells = social FC = Titan. Simple.

FC is still growing. They all have to start somewhere, do they not? We only seem to have 2 or 3 on this server that advertise anything regarding progression. My issue is that I cannot commit to a 2-4 day a week raid schedule, I am undergeared (which many capable FCs will detest) and not all of them are even looking for a whm. The angle you've chosen to play--while logical to a degree--is not the best angle here.

I agree with the whole level Thau up thing. But, at this point, that is not why we are not completing Titan. I will do that soon, but pointing this out to me attempts to place some type of blame on me, and I am not willing to accept that as the primary factor.

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

Also, OP, idk if this has been stated already or if you already have this setting, but it helped me tremendously when I switched from the standard controls to "legacy" controls. I try and convince other people in my party to use legacy controls as well. It'll enable you to run backwards as opposed to slowly back peddling.

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Been using a mouse to move since WOW. I anticipate when I need to run, turn my view to that direction, then just run when needed. I guess this could be nice, but I never walk backwards. Might be useful for other people.

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Originally Posted by Heo

Hey OP,

I am also from Faerie. I should be running Titan for my 5th relic later this week, so feel free to tag along if you still need it by then.

Add me on friend list so I don't forget. ^_^

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Thanks, Heo.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Titan is easy...

I've killed him in the DF twice and I've sold it for at least 25 kills and I have killed him probably 100 times. And I've tanked and dpsed it.

Everything happens in the same order, all you need to do is memorize the fight and you can go without getting hit by a single thing.

http://i.imgur.com/UbacDrh.gif

When we sell titan, if we can't find buyers, we give away free runs (probably why we can't find buyers).

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I am not sure you read my post.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

My wife and I are in the same boat.
Ask FC/LS no one wants to do it.

DF seems to fail only got past the heart 2 times in about 15 parties.
Our Gear sets are all Darklight or better. And well we are leveling alt jobs there is a point when if we can't finish content we will need to move on to another game.

Also don't have time to build a party over 3-4 hour just to have it fail because really your hitting the lotto as much with prebuilt as you are with DF.

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Basically this right here. The DF issue I am pointing out is also that once people have done Titan, there is little incentive to do it again (at least in the DF). It's not like WP where people are farming 100 tomes. Titan is not worth pugging in DF to farm, I don't think. And most of the people I talk to are busy leveling other classes, or farming a Garuda weapon, or doing anything but messing around with Titan. I am slowly building a friend list of people I play with who are capable, but we're never on at the same time, so what we end up with is a bunch of people looking for their first kill. Not a problem. I am all for teaching, and I have patience, but after 300 attempts, something's gotta give.

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Originally Posted by itscoreylol

If you can't find or put a group together that's capable of doing Titan, you are going to have the same difficulty finding a group for coil.

It sounds much more like a lack of determination on your part. You could either buy a run, or you could spend the time to make your own group of people that you know aren't bad, that you can coach through all the mechanics and get them experience and down it after some practice.

If you don't want to spend the time making the money, or building the group and getting people experience, that's your problem and not a fault of the game. The point is you're not going about this the right way, you are looking to be carried. You want to be able to join a group that's 7/8 people and will go in and one shot it. It's not going to happen.

Titan is not hard, it's only hard by association when compared to everything else in the game to that point.

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Can we frame this post and meme it as "Trolling: You're doing it right?"

You can't possibly be serious with this reply? This is not at all what I asked for in my post at all. What part of knowing the fight enough to get to 10% before everyone else dies in any way indicates that I--or anyone like me--is wanting to be carried? Your post and your attitude are part of the problem, to be quite honest.

And before you pop off about L2Heal and related: 90% of the deaths occur because people get bombed, or LS'ed off during bombs, or stand in a plume pile. That is nothing any healer can do anything about.

Have a nice day!

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Originally Posted by Yurikitty

If you are balking at putting together a party cause it might take you a few hours you are in the wrong game. Putting together a good party = 2 hours, being stuck on titan and not being able to progress, whats 2 hours at that point? This fight was done with 8 people in relics and binkis. It is not hard. Even as a healer. And OP, seriously man, you need to upgrade those accessories. As whms our cures are tied to our gear. You want your cures to hit for high numbers and you need that mana pool to be as fat as possible. Healers are the key to this fight, help yourself, make your gear as good as it can get. Or come to Midgard where we have a FC dedicated to running people though for fun.

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I appreciate "gear up" advice. I think it's evidenced by what I am wearing that I am in progress for that. I have been healing Titan since I got my Ifrit staff and was wearing mostly DF stuff. I have run numerous dungeons, and am only a few more off from having all blues to mitigate this sentiment. I assure you that while those last few trinkets will help, my lacking them is not the main reason I am stuck. I could be wearing full coil gear and there is nothing I could do to save a tank eating a bomb + mountainbuster. It's things like that which are holding the groups back.

Wow, haha.. this thread is really making me look forward to end game... :) And yes, there is a bit of sarcasm there. I already have had some issues with AOEs hitting me outside of the red, so I'm sure Titan will be a dream come true...

Here's my 2 cents. OP, you are definitely geared enough and seem to know the fight. I was in the same situation for about 3 weeks before I got my relic. DO NOT buy your relic, please. By doing that, you are missing out on that "F*!@ Yeah!" moment and then have to live with the fact that you had to pay for it, rather than straight up earn it. I've run into a few people that bought theirs and it was obvious. Not saying that's you but you don't want to be a part of that crowd.

Being a WHM myself, I do recommend Swiftcast as it is very handy to have. It's not really required for the fight though if you know how to precast the mountain buster and use Divine Seal.

Seriously, just keep at it. Get shout groups and weed out the weak links (I generally do 3 strikes and you're out) and you will eventually get a group that will beat him. Some people may even have relic buddies to help out. When I was getting my second relic, I brought 2 of my friends along that already had theirs.

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Originally Posted by pbplaya7

DO NOT buy your relic, please. By doing that, you are missing out on that "F*!@ Yeah!" moment and then have to live with the fact that you had to pay for it, rather than straight up earn it.

Seriously, just keep at it. Get shout groups and weed out the weak links (I generally do 3 strikes and you're out) and you will eventually get a group that will beat him. Some people may even have relic buddies to help out. When I was getting my second relic, I brought 2 of my friends along that already had theirs.

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So uhmmmmmmm. You shouldn't buy it, because that's not an achievement, but instead you should bring as many friends with relics as possible because then it's suddenly an achievement? Sense :D

Completely different. I did not pay them to do the fight with me and they were the only ones that had their relics in the group. The point is that I used a key part of an MMO, friends, to get it rather than simply paying to be carried.