"You need Voice Chat to do Coil"

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Originally Posted by KogaDrake

I recall it actually being said by Yoshi-P in one of the live letters before launch that it was something that should be used to actually succeed at end game, but they left it out of the game as it is too easy to harass people in voice (and have no record of it in a log) and that it is only really useful/needed for a small amount of content (and content that only a subset of players will even do) and more bad could come of it then actual good. same reason given for no tells in instances (something that is also very useful in raids w/o voice).

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I think that's ridiculous. Why? We get harassed by RMT on a daily basis, but we can block said tells or even channels.. So why not give the ability to block such with voice??? The needs of the many far outweigh the needs of one, having the option to choose and block or turn off makes far more sense to me.

I think people require voice chat because they like to hear their own voice. Too lazy to type? You can just have the entire raid instruction macroed in a text and that takes considerably less effort to hit a macro than saying the same thing again, not to mention you don't have to repeat yourself if someone missed it. With the built in lag in this game, you're pretty much in a Matrix 'your man are already dead' if you need someone else to tell you there's something wrong with your character. You can pretty much just have common events with a sound effect macroed, like "Adds spawn <SE1>" and that's faster than saying the same thing. I realize most people don't have an exhausive bank of likely events in a raid so voice chat is useful there, but if you're serious about winning you'd have a bank of likely events in a raid already macroed because that's faster than saying the same thing.

it would be cool for the game to include some voice chat functions, its not available now, doesn't mean it wont be in the future so probably a good place to start is the feedback forums.

SE doesn't want to deal with moderating it and players don't want to deal with mic spamming for general game activities. Most people only want to use voice chat where it's really valuable to have (e.g. coil), thus SE decided it would be best for people to use prviate VC.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

I think that's ridiculous. Why? We get harassed by RMT on a daily basis, but we can block said tells or even channels.. So why not give the ability to block such with voice??? The needs of the many far outweigh the needs of one, having the option to choose and block or turn off makes far more sense to me.

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Guess you haven't played many Xbox games, then. Verbal abuse may not be on your list of 'things that are a thing' but it's taken pretty seriously in other games. Take League of Legends, devs have literally banned players over verbal abuse, something that's been in gaming news repeatedly. And it's pretty much par for course to have people being abusive on Xbox Live. "But you can mute that person so /shrug" is fine and dandy but what if that person happens to be one of the people organizing the party? Mute them and lose half the strategy? You can't control who's going to be abusive and who's not so it's just better not to have it.

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Originally Posted by InVizO

Yes voice chat is required just like communication is required just like group strategy is required, Coil is not meant for the pugs that like to type.

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Not true. It makes communication easier, yes, but it is definitely NOT required.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Guess you haven't played many Xbox games, then. Verbal abuse may not be on your list of 'things that are a thing' but it's taken pretty seriously in other games. Take League of Legends, devs have literally banned players over verbal abuse, something that's been in gaming news repeatedly. And it's pretty much par for course to have people being abusive on Xbox Live. "But you can mute that person so /shrug" is fine and dandy but what if that person happens to be one of the people organizing the party? Mute them and lose half the strategy? You can't control who's going to be abusive and who's not so it's just better not to have it.

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No, just no. That's laziness.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Not true. It makes communication easier, yes, but it is definitely NOT required.

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But it's required to run with me, and many others share the same view because chances are, having 1 or more players not in TS3 or vent is not only hurting the party's chance of success but also is harming the amount of time it will take to finish. People really can be that selfish to not download a simple APP for their smartphone to save everyone a headache?

The only valid excuse for not using VOIP in coil is that you have run and completed it before and is now on FARM status.

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Originally Posted by InVizO

But it's required to run with me, and many others share the same view because chances are, having 1 or more players not in TS3 or vent is not only hurting the party's chance of success but also is harming the amount of time it will take to finish. People really can be that selfish to not download a simple APP for their smartphone to save everyone a headache?

The only valid excuse for not using VOIP in coil is that you have run and completed it before and is now on FARM status.

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Or, you know, not having a device to use it on.

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Originally Posted by TrickedOutHoro

Or, you know, not having a device to use it on.

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Why are you subscribed and buying video games if you cannot afford a smartphone? They pay for themselves with their practicality a 100x over.

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Originally Posted by InVizO

Why are you subscribed and buying video games if you cannot afford a smartphone? They pay for themselves with their practicality a 100x over.

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Case by case basis. Some feel the need not to upgrade for ONE game.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Guess you haven't played many Xbox games, then. Verbal abuse may not be on your list of 'things that are a thing' but it's taken pretty seriously in other games. Take League of Legends, devs have literally banned players over verbal abuse, something that's been in gaming news repeatedly. And it's pretty much par for course to have people being abusive on Xbox Live. "But you can mute that person so /shrug" is fine and dandy but what if that person happens to be one of the people organizing the party? Mute them and lose half the strategy? You can't control who's going to be abusive and who's not so it's just better not to have it.

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Right I hear you some can't handle it. But abuse will happen regardless. I can VC with you right now and abuse you. I could make multiple accounts and abuse you. I could mass mail you... And the list goes on. Barring VC from a console that handles it fine is not a solution.

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Originally Posted by InVizO

Why are you subscribed and buying video games if you cannot afford a smartphone? They pay for themselves with their practicality a 100x over.

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Can't afford a smartphone? Who said that? I don't need one, and i'm certainly not getting one to talk to people on a video game.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

Case by case basis. Some feel the need not to upgrade for ONE game.

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I live the cellular industry practically, smartphones have been FREE with 2yr contracts for over 4 years now. Well past your upgrade period.

But please don't say it's for one game, that is just an insult, i'm sure you can think of more uses with a smartphone lol.

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Originally Posted by Dano

it would be cool for the game to include some voice chat functions, its not available now, doesn't mean it wont be in the future so probably a good place to start is the feedback forums.

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SE including voice chat wouldn't really fix much besides giving df groups easy access to voice chat. Most coil premades have someone who has access to some form of superior voice chat(vent, ts3, etc). This means even if voice chat was included most groups would not use it and the current situation would still exist. This ties in to is it worth SE trying to implement a function that many will not use or will use only to troll other players (that would be forced to mute them).

I don't think chat box can compare to voice chat. I never read the chat box when doing any kind of difficult content. I find it funny when someone types LB and wonders why the person doesn't LB. However, I think raid calls (like wow) could be useful but they would have to find a way so it wouldn't be abused in DF groups.

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Originally Posted by TrickedOutHoro

Can't afford a smartphone? Who said that? I don't need one, and i'm certainly not getting one to talk to people on a video game.

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Then you shouldn't be complaining. You have access to an option but choose not to use it, your fault.

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Originally Posted by InVizO

Why are you subscribed and buying video games if you cannot afford a smartphone? They pay for themselves with their practicality a 100x over.

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Yes, obviously you should be able to afford a $50-$100 a month phone bill for a service that you're contractually locked into and have to pass a credit check to obtain if you have the money to afford a $10-$13 a month FFXIV subscription that you can cancel anytime!

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Originally Posted by InVizO

Why are you subscribed and buying video games if you cannot afford a smartphone? They pay for themselves with their practicality a 100x over.

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Wasn't aware smartphones and subscription based MMOs were directly correlated. Besides, it isn't a question of it being affordable or not which people can't seem to grasp.

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Originally Posted by InVizO

Why are you subscribed and buying video games if you cannot afford a smartphone? They pay for themselves with their practicality a 100x over.

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Errrm, not really.... Unless you like paying for a phone for the life of the phone. Most major carriers charge you a subsidized phone plan, but after your contract is up, your prices do not reduce. Hardly practical. In fact, once you pay off your contract, the practicality of owning a smartphone reduces each month that goes by. Perhaps, you were referring to functionality? Or maybe the utility? Also, VOIP is your requirement for your PUGS. VOIP is hardly needed once you learn to pay attention to what's going on.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

Errrm, not really.... Unless you like paying for a phone for the life of the phone. Most major carriers charge you a subsidized phone plan, but after your contract is up, your prices do not reduce. Hardly practical. In fact, once you pay off your contract, the practicality of owning a smartphone reduces each month that goes by. Perhaps, you were referring to functionality? Or maybe the utility? Also, VOIP is your requirement for your PUGS. VOIP is hardly needed once you learn to pay attention to what's going on.

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Yeah price matching at best buy a $1999 TV the other week down to $1750. Did my phone just pay for itself? Yes it did.
The utility is what I'm referring to.

Seeing as I was kicked from a FC for not using a voice chat program to run Coil with them, I can't say I really care for voice chat as a requirement. For all my FC's leader knew, I could have been a deaf mute. How is this even remotely fair?

Secondly, they completely don't even take into consideration the fact that, oh, I don't know... Maybe you're playing on PS3 and you're not even close to your PC so you can use a voice chat program in the first place? That or they assume you have an iPhone, or some shit, capable of doing it. People that state voice chat is a requirement are going under a lot of assumptions, therefore I don't think it's really fair to consider it a requirement.

An option to help members? Sure, I can understand that. A requirement though? No. You do not need voice chat to get through end game content.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Yes, obviously you should be able to afford a $50-$100 a month phone bill for a service that you're contractually locked into and have to pass a credit check to obtain if you have the money to afford a $10-$13 a month FFXIV subscription that you can cancel anytime!

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You are not locked into anything, but dont feel bad most America views it the way you do. You can pay a pro-rated $250 cancellation at any time to get out, which btw is FREE if you sell your smartphone on the Internet.

We are not speaking about $50-100, just the added premium for the data package which is next to nothing on top of what you already pay to have A phone number.

There are 3 Million more active smartphones in the US than their are people in the US right now. Lol you made a personal choice not be part of the 102%

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

Words spoken in a video I watched. For me that's not a big deal, as I have both a phone and a desktop. But this has me wondering, if said quote is a requirement, why isn't it in the game???

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I apologize if anyone has already stated this, but one of the main reasons is that many companies do not want the added burden of dealing with the additional communication method. It requires further resources to be able to process this depending on implementation (either on client or server), and then they could arguably be held accountable for what people say over it. Have you listened to the voice chat in games that have voice integrated? Its usually not even worth turning on a headset. Its easier to let communities use an established voice chat solution and manage it themselves.

Voice chat is only really useful for very top end. If you're trying to win a corporate sponsorship for your FC sure use voice chat. Due to the game's built in server lag, one of the key advantage of voice chat, which is to allow someone to tell another person position time-sensitive information, is completely lost. According to your screen, nobody else ever dodged an AE anyway so therefore you cannot possibly tell anyone anything useful in real time based on your screen. Non time-sensitive information (e.g. when adds spawn) can be done by simple macros with less room for error, since you already wrote down the correct solution ahead of time instead of having to think about it on the fly. It is useful if you're planning on an ugly win where exactly one person was still standing right as the boss died, but that's generally not how you want to start planning your raids.

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Originally Posted by InVizO

Yeah price matching at best buy a $1999 TV the other week down to $1750. Did my phone just pay for itself? Yes it did.
The utility is what I'm referring to.

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Not really, but that is still a good find. The fact is, you can find that information all sorts of ways without resorting to buying a cell phone, thereby increasing your money saved. Even if you were to take that $250 to buy out your contract, you are actually losing more money by staying with a smart phone. At that point, it would be best for you to buy another phone. That way, you are at least justifying the subsidized phone pricing. Although, you are correct a smart phone has quite a bit of functionality. Some people can afford to play FFXIV based on the fact they don't have to pay $30 a month for a janky data plan on a janky phone plan for a janky carrier.

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Originally Posted by InVizO

You are not locked into anything, but dont feel bad most America views it the way you do. You can pay a pro-rated $250 cancellation at any time to get out, which btw is FREE if you sell your smartphone on the Internet.

We are not speaking about $50-100, just the added premium for the data package which is next to nothing on top of what you already pay to have A phone number.

There are 3 Million more active smartphones in the US than their are people in the US right now. Lol you made a personal choice not be part of the 102%

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Honest non-trolling question. Do you pay your own bills? As in live on your own, etc.?

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Originally Posted by InVizO

You are not locked into anything, but dont feel bad most America views it the way you do. You can pay a pro-rated $250 cancellation at any time to get out, which btw is FREE if you sell your smartphone on the Internet.

We are not speaking about $50-100, just the added premium for the data package which is next to nothing on top of what you already pay to have A phone number.

There are 3 Million more active smartphones in the US than their are people in the US right now. Lol you made a personal choice not be part of the 102%

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Originally Posted by InVizO

I live the cellular industry practically.

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So it's obvious you have an ulterior motive here. What you're doing is bordering on advertising for your job. Please stop.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

So it's obvious you have an ulterior motive here. What you're doing is bordering on advertising for your job. Please stop.

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I wouldn't say this is anything like advertising to be honest. It's a topic for debate if anything. Probably doesn't belong on the FFXIV forums in regards to the cellular industry, but hardly advertising.

But since you did quote him stating he practically lives in the cellular industry, and going back to that original comment, smartphones have been free up front, but you are paying the subsidized cost in your phone plan. Which is not free at all. In fact without upgrading, you will still be paying for a phone well after your contract period ends. While I have a smartphone, I am lucky enough to have a grandfathered unlimited plan with Verizon, and believe me, I get my monies worth every month on my data plan. Over 10 GB's worth some months. Never did that until they required people to go to 2GB plans telling people they would save money this way. This is why you shouldn't treat all your customers like sheep.

Smartphones are also contributing to crappy social skills and a lack of common courtesy in a lot of people, which is why some people have resisted the shift.

But I guess if you're requiring people to have voice chat for 'serious' raiding in an MMO, that isn't exactly your priority.

Back to the subject at hand. Some of us do better with text. Audio is a distraction not a help. All this really means is that I won't ever be running end game with those people who "require" VC.

In another thread on this subject someone mentioned they run coil with a group that has two members without chat. To accommodate they use macros and marking. And honestly, did anyone out there get from coil 1 to 5 on the first try going in blind with or without VC?

Whether you start announcing patterns over audio, or add them to a macro and trigger them, you get the same effect. If you are a person who isn't good at reading on screen text and playing, then maybe audio is preferable for you, in which case I can see the argument for having in game voice chat support. But I don't think it should ever be considered a hard requirement.

Even BG on turn 5 what they did with audio, could have easily been done with macros. Clearly they prefer audio, and I have no problem with that. But there was nothing they did that needed to be audio.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

I've never experienced this first hand but I know it's there and no not for any games, just games that require you to hold your own or you'll harm everyone. BC is also story related, what if I love the story and only want to play through the turns not for gear but lore. After working 9-5 why do players have to be subjected to work as hard at what should be entertainment?

Some of us are stoic I get that, you play through the pain. But you're not the only audience here. This option is not the best option IMO.

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Really, Coil has story?
I didn't knew that. I thought it was just some cool place with Bahamut's name on it. Suddenly I feel a lot less excited about this game.

WoW learned the hard way that hiding lore behind raiding is a bad idea, and made LFR. Then comes FFXIV and copies the old horrible, exclusive model. So, people who can't commit to a schedule, don't want or can't use voice chat, or is just bad a remembering and executing silly mechanics, won't see what's there to see?
Are we in 2003 or something?

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

Really, Coil has story?
I didn't knew that. I thought it was just some cool place with Bahamut's name on it. Suddenly I feel a lot less excited about this game.

WoW learned the hard way that hiding lore behind raiding is a bad idea, and made LFR. Then comes FFXIV and copies the old horrible, exclusive model. So, people who can't commit to a schedule, don't want or can't use voice chat, or is just bad a remembering and executing silly mechanics, won't see what's there to see?
Are we in 2003 or something?

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As content gets easier, relatively speaking, people will get to view the little tidbits of lore behind it. If they went the WoW route, they would have DF mode and normal mode for coils. Which in my opinion would only increase the amount of silliness on these forums. I look at it as a reward for taking the time to progress beyond level 50 and for working to get into 'late' end game. If you can't commit to a schedule, VOIP, etc. you can either wait until it becomes easier, or find a group that is willing to work with you. It does happen, and does exist. It's how I got a relic on my WAR without tanking. Sometimes, there is rewards for those who work outside of the box with people who can bring something to the game. Such as my skill in avoiding 99% of bad on Titan HM as a DPS. And the couple of times I did get hit, I can recover myself without the need for a healer.

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Originally Posted by InVizO

Yes voice chat is required just like communication is required just like group strategy is required, Coil is not meant for the pugs that like to type.

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would be nice to know how I'm on turn 4 without using VC then :P.

My roommate did coil without voice chat for over a month with the same 8 people and have been clearing 1-4 weekly. It's not impossible to do it without VC people are just too spoiled or derpy to pay attention to what they are doing and analyzing the battlefield while making necessary adjustments.

I find VC in most guilds to be distracting so I join but mute it so I can focus on the content and my role.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

As content gets easier, relatively speaking, people will get to view the little tidbits of lore behind it. If they went the WoW route, they would have DF mode and normal mode for coils. Which in my opinion would only increase the amount of silliness on these forums. I look at it as a reward for taking the time to progress beyond level 50 and for working to get into 'late' end game. If you can't commit to a schedule, VOIP, etc. you can either wait until it becomes easier, or find a group that is willing to work with you. It does happen, and does exist. It's how I got a relic on my WAR without tanking. Sometimes, there is rewards for those who work outside of the box with people who can bring something to the game. Such as my skill in avoiding 99% of bad on Titan HM as a DPS. And the couple of times I did get hit, I can recover myself without the need for a healer.

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Right now I'm looking forward to Crystal Tower, as it was intended to be done before Coil.

But, I honestly hope I'll be able to get things done in 2.1 - I don't mind working on it, but I'll be very upset if I find myself stuck like I did in the start of Cataclysm and never seeing what happens to Nefarian and Sinestra because no one did their raids after 4.2 besides the occasional PUG that died on the second boss.

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Originally Posted by Raiz_Cineris

I use to use my laptop next to me when I play on ps3 and realized its too annoying to have so instead I downloaded TS3 on my Iphone and do just fine.

This is not a problem on anyone's part besides your own.

BTW did you just watch BG's vid of them downing Twintania? There is practically 0 chatter during the boss fight.

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They Key word is "practically", there are key times when a voice que needs to be given, that is what voice communication is good for and can make or break a fight. It's an unfortunately reality but it is true. Hopefully, either the PS4 version will have a voice system built in or PS4 will allow multiple apps to be run at the same time, allowing TS or mumble to work with the game.

Given my experience with MMOs before things like TS and whatnot got really popular, where we just typed things, I can say that doing raids without voice chat works fine. It's easier (usually) to use a voice chat to communicate, but is far from necessary... in most ideal situations.

In a game like FFXI, where windowed mode wasn't available for a LONG time, expecting people to use windower just for TS/Skype/etc wasn't too common. Something to note: many LS's managed perfectly fine without voice chat. It's just that as time went on, people started promoting the use of it a lot more, and thus it became a standard thing, regardless of the fact you'd still be doing the same content that you did without it.

You have to keep in mind that many people these days lack the patience to retry things. Any small mistake sets a lot of people into rage mode. Imagine what would happen because someone took too long to type something out mid-fight. If something makes things easier, regardless of how miniscule, it becomes mandatory to your typical mouth-breather (an overwhelming number of your peers). That's not to say that voice chat is always of minimal benefit, as sometimes it's of significant benefit, but just things to make anything easier in general.

On re-reading the OP I find that it is fundamentally flawed. As can be seen from various posts in this thread, voice chat is not necessary to do coil(turns 1-4 at least). However, every group has the option of requiring everyone to use voice chat if they so wish. If you don't have access to voice chat then the solution is simple: Join a group that doesn't require voice chat. Then there is no need for a work around. Don't expect a group that requires voice chat of all members to make an "exception" for you. It might be harder to find a group but as can be seen from some posts in this thread isn't impossible.

1. I do not have a smart phone because I don't need one nor want one. I had one and realized I was paying $60 a month for 3-4 calls so I bought a cheap pay as you go phone.

2. I can say that I have played MMOs that have had really good voice chat systems. DCUO is one that I can say had one of the best setups that comes to mind.

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Originally Posted by KogaDrake

I recall it actually being said by Yoshi-P in one of the live letters before launch that it was something that should be used to actually succeed at end game, but they left it out of the game as it is too easy to harass people in voice (and have no record of it in a log) and that it is only really useful/needed for a small amount of content (and content that only a subset of players will even do) and more bad could come of it then actual good. same reason given for no tells in instances (something that is also very useful in raids w/o voice).

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-chat-support

My FC uses ventrilo/teamspeak that both have apps on android and ios so I use my phone/tablet when we do raids