White Mage: You should DPS and here's why.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

I'm not sure of 1.33 - it could be as high as 1.8. You will have to do some experimenting. The other thing I would caution against is the fact that you are locking yourself in for 6-7 seconds to take this action. If you need to pop a heal in the interim, you will be limited by your macro firing off stuff that may no longer be ideal. I personally value flexibility over convenience, so I limit the macros I use to really just save space on my X-hotbar.

But, yes, that should work, as long as those /wait's are accurate. Dancing and Poking included - as /poke is NOT on the IGCD : D

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Strangely, I didn't even need that much
/ac "cleric stance" <me>
/wait 1
/ac "aero II" <tt>
/wait 2
/ac "aero" <tt>
/wait 1
/ac "cleric stance" <me>

I used it all night and it worked perfectly every time.

I do a lot of stance dancing. My opinions on Cleric stance are this. It's a risk if there are more than 2 enemies. If there are more than 2 sleep targets 3 and (4)

I will generally sleep target 3, drop a heal on the tank to put him back over 75%, swap cleric, blast away with stone II until tank gets below 45%, swap out of cleric stance, heal, swap back into cleric stance, spam stone II. As long as the tank isn't in immediate danger of dying you should be doing damage. Even in cleric stance your regen is more than enough to heal any DPS characters. Your goal is the tank above 75% when the damage is incoming.


The only learning curve here is the cooldown on Cleric stance. The Cooldown starts when you ENTER cleric stance. This is why you make sure your tank isn't going to get molested in the short cooldown between popping cleric stance and the time you can remove cleric stance.


At the end of the day, if you aren't dpsing, you're playing a white mage wrong.

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Originally Posted by Tzain

I used it all night and it worked perfectly every time.

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I am shocked that /wait 2 worked between aeros...I thought the GCD was 2.5+ even with a buttload of skill speed.

Maybe a /wait line will just wait as long as is needed to fire off the next skill specified...that would be awesome but its not how I understood it.

Can you offer any more insight? i.e. how long did you have to mess around with this before it worked, or did it work on your first try plugging in those values, etc?

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

I do a lot of stance dancing. My opinions on Cleric stance are this. It's a risk if there are more than 2 enemies. If there are more than 2 sleep targets 3 and (4)

I will generally sleep target 3, drop a heal on the tank to put him back over 75%, swap cleric, blast away with stone II until tank gets below 45%, swap out of cleric stance, heal, swap back into cleric stance, spam stone II. As long as the tank isn't in immediate danger of dying you should be doing damage. Even in cleric stance your regen is more than enough to heal any DPS characters. Your goal is the tank above 75% when the damage is incoming.


The only learning curve here is the cooldown on Cleric stance. The Cooldown starts when you ENTER cleric stance. This is why you make sure your tank isn't going to get molested in the short cooldown between popping cleric stance and the time you can remove cleric stance.


At the end of the day, if you aren't dpsing, you're playing a white mage wrong.

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You realize that your logic breaks down when none of the mobs are sleepable? :D

I think i'll just stick to healing and thorwing in aero's here and there, and the occassional Holy. I see no need for me, the HEALER to be doing two jobs. The DPS should be able to do their job without having the need to call on me. You don't see anyone asking the DPS help heal, if that ever happened you would be called a shitty healer. Not to mention having to deal with stealing hate from bad tanks, then getting bitched at for dpsing. I think i'll pass. If you want to go ahead and dps and heal go for it, though saying that all healers need to be dpsing is silly.

No, WHM can do some dps if he/she want to make the run a bit faster, but we don't need to, and certainly not have to.

The healer will get bitched at whether they do or whether they don't. So just play how you want to.

I don't agree with "every healer should dps"

For me it come down to the situation. The party can change when and where I dps. A good tank and I will dps most fights. I'm a SCH so I have the advantage of a heal bot and even the boss fight in AK I dps.

End of the day it comes down to the individual player and if they are comfortable moving away from the primary job.

Here's my opinion: A healers attack spells are meant for two things; fighting OUTSIDE of a party (soloing) and light support in a group. Yes, I'm one of the healers likely to just stand there when I'm not needed, but only because I take every percaution. Instead of burning MP on stone II, I sit by the sidelines, letting my mana recover. You never know when you're going to get stuck with a "bad" tank, or worse, someone disconnects durring a boss fight; and when that moment comes, your going to wish you had enough for that last cure spell. Shroud of Saints is good for mana recovery but it's long recast time makes in unreliable before lvl 45, and it won't always be enough.

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

At the end of the day, if you aren't dpsing, you're playing a white mage wrong.

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A White Mages job, in a group, is to HEAL. An Areo spell every now and then is fine, and no one's going to complain about using Sleep. But if that isn't enough for you, go be a Black Mage.

If a healer is not being lazy, and they are properly geared for the dungeon then, yes, they should be dpsing when ever they have the spare mana and time to do so between heals.

Are you REQUIRED to DPS... NO, but you are also not REQUIRED to be anymore than MEDIOCRE. If you do not play your class to it's full ability, yes, that means adding additional dps and utility when you are able, than you are no more than a mediocre player. This does not make you a "BAD" healer, but if you think you are Great... it is likely only in your own mind. Doing nothing but the very base ability of your class is far from greatness.

Everyone, dps, healers, tanks should all be looking for ways to improve their performance. DPS often contribute by damage reducing abilities, or damage increasing abilities, tanks do a hell of a lot more than just hold agro.... why should healers not do more than keep your group alive if they have the ability?

Do not get me wrong, there are times when I am feeling lazy and I don't dps while I am zoning out or watching a movie. That is because I am being lazy! It happens to the best of us, but when I am running in speed runs or even normal myth grinding groups.... you bet your ass I am dpsing. No one wants to be in their any longer than we have to when we still have to do it again 7 more times.

TLDR: If you are going to be lazy... own it. If you are not going to dps because your role says "healer" then own the fact that you are a mediocre player and stop calling yourself a good healer... because you are not. You are putting just enough effort forward to get the job done and that never got anyone a gold star.

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Originally Posted by Psychosamm

I think i'll just stick to healing and thorwing in aero's here and there, and the occassional Holy. I see no need for me, the HEALER to be doing two jobs. The DPS should be able to do their job without having the need to call on me. You don't see anyone asking the DPS help heal, if that ever happened you would be called a shitty healer. Not to mention having to deal with stealing hate from bad tanks, then getting bitched at for dpsing. I think i'll pass. If you want to go ahead and dps and heal go for it, though saying that all healers need to be dpsing is silly.

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There's no shame in asking for help with healing, so long as an ARC is with you. Most people know that the healers job is, in many cases, the hardest(ignoring the occasional downtime). The only people that judge you are the one's that are either quick to point fingers when something goes wrong, or simply haven't tried being a healer before. Worst case senario, they came straight from WoW.

I'm sure a lot of other people have said it, but there's really no reason not to DPS unless:

Your tank is undergeared (Meaning they are taking heavier incomming damage that requires constant maintenence)
You are undergeared (meaning outgoing heals are not strong enough to maintain the tank without constant maintenence)
Kthulu has spawned and is constantly AoE'ing the party (meaning that it's an AoE heavy fight / people are taking cleaves / Red spots.)

Even then, with all the tools we are given, there's no reason why you can't stance dance and try to help out with a bit of extra damage. It makes the dungoun go faster, it's fun to cast some extra DPS, and on some fights, it's a bigger advantage to the team to go DPS-heavy than it is to stay healer in some cases (I'm looking at you, Demon Wall Pre-Bee phase; and also what OP said... damage mitigation through expedited destruction of the enemy is beneficial)

Do I dislike the other healers who won't DPS? No, not really. I'm just grateful I don't have to party with them on my healer. But if you're not having to go overly intense on your heals, I see no reason not to DPS save for laziness, which like another poster said - is all well and good. Just own up to it.

I have no qualms with any healer that belives it's their duty to take on two roles. More power to you. But NO ONE has the right to call a healer that won't attack lazy! If anything those people are wise to save any MP they still have (doubly so in speedruns). Every plan has a margin for error, and nothing is guarenteed. Doing more than just Areo I & II to dps is dangerous. If you're so determined to stay active in dull moments, then how about renewing Stoneskin on everyone who's been hit? There's usually more work to do by the time you finish.

*eidt* this obviously applies to WHM only! As many have constantly pointed out, SCH and SMN's are more than capable of handling all roles!

I didn't realize this was even a thing. If you're standing around -WAITING- for something to happen, you're useless to your entire group. Swap into cleric stance fast an start throwing dots, cast a stone 2 now and again, swap back out when tank needs some love. Forget the divine seal thing, going in prepared and knowing what you can heal for and from makes all the diff in the world. I let mine know, the ones I run with constantly, I'm guna let you drop to about 30% before I start heals, a bit higher for paladins. Granted that's not on every pull but I know what each mob is capable of and know what I can heal for. Saying oh but my MP can't handle it? Sorry, if your MP can't handle healing and dps'ing on trash..you need some work. For those saying, but what if the fight goes bad!? Just know the mobs, know your own skills. If mob A is capable of doing X amount and your tank can't survive that..then heal him. Lazy WHM's in this game I swear..

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Originally Posted by Zanika

I have no qualms with any healer that belives it's their duty to take on two roles. More power to you. But NO ONE has the right to call a healer that won't attack lazy!

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In AK, as an example, if your group is properly geared and you're not nuking, you will spend majority of your time standing still doing nothing while you could be actually useful for your group. I don't know what you call that but to me that's lazy.

I agree that us healers should DPS when possible. Problem is, other people don't like it. Too often I'll have another player throw a bitch fit and shout at me to stop "dpsing and heal!!!" after I cast a single Aero...

I still make use of Aero and Aero II when I can, but with the exception of Demon Wall, I avoid DPS as much as possible just to save myself the grief.

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Originally Posted by Zanika

If you're so determined to stay active in dull moments, then how about renewing Stoneskin on everyone who's been hit?

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You're assuming the tank sucks and everyone is taking hits.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

I agree that us healers should DPS when possible. Problem is, other people don't like it. Too often I'll have another player throw a bitch fit and shout at me to stop "dpsing and heal!!!" after I cast a single Aero...

I still make use of Aero and Aero II when I can, but with the exception of Demon Wall, I avoid DPS as much as possible just to save myself the grief.

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I'm waiting for the day when this'll happen to me. But for some reason it hasn't. In fact I've had more praises than complaints.

Different experiences though. I suppose I've just been lucky.

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Originally Posted by Tanaya

You're assuming the tank sucks and everyone is taking hits.

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Cant ignore the fact that large number of tank in pug are crap. As WHM, if u dont use stoneskin to the minimum the threat, u r likely to OT in some cases. It isnt efficient, but still an alternative to healer DPS. It also need a lot of practice to master anyway because sometimes this buff doesnt work as expected due to programming failure.

No, I'm sorry I fully believe if you're a WHM worth your salt and you've got the opportunity to put some dps into the mobs, then you should. Standing there uselessly waiting makes you a scrub.

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Originally Posted by Zanika

I have no qualms with any healer that belives it's their duty to take on two roles. More power to you. But NO ONE has the right to call a healer that won't attack lazy! If anything those people are wise to save any MP they still have (doubly so in speedruns). Every plan has a margin for error, and nothing is guarenteed. Doing more than just Areo I & II to dps is dangerous. If you're so determined to stay active in dull moments, then how about renewing Stoneskin on everyone who's been hit? There's usually more work to do by the time you finish.

*eidt* this obviously applies to WHM only! As many have constantly pointed out, SCH and SMN's are more than capable of handling all roles!

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Stupid text limits.


It's all subjective and opinion based. I do view them as lazy - if they are capable of doing, and the situation permits, and they choose not to, then they are opting out of additional work because they see it as 'not their job.' To me, this is lazy. This is like having a Co-Worker who says it's 'Not in their pay grade', or purposely acts in a way that tries to bypass having to do a specific job (I've worked in Pharmacies where the other techs try to do something else after sitting around looking at shoes to avoid getting the register, for example - another point of 'being lazy.')

As I said, it's not a bad thing. It IS just an action, and I'm not using a negative connotation for it. I respect your choice, as you believe that is the way the class should be played. But I think it's mildly hypocritical to say "SCH can keep DPS'ing, and SMN's can off-heal, but don't expect a WHM to do it!" This just puts me of the impression that you play a White Mage only.


Now, you did mention to renew stoneskin on 'everyone that has been hit', but very rarely in my parties will anyone save the tank take a hit in my parties. The only time I really use stoneskin in such scenarios is right before a boss pull - because then I can DPS at the start of the fight (All three bosses of AK. I even throw out DPS on the dragon boss most the time, because it downs the statues faster to have a ranged caster on them.)

I do want to ask - what kind of gear are you going into these instances with? If you're still a bit newer / early on, it may well be a comfort thing that has made you believe this. But if it's just because you want to have YouTube up on your other screen without worrying about cycles, then you're purposely not playing to your maximum potential - and that, in and of itself, is lazy.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

But I think it's mildly hypocritical to say "SCH can keep DPS'ing, and SMN's can off-heal, but don't expect a WHM to do it!" This just puts me of the impression that you play a White Mage only.

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ARC is the only DoM I have yet to reach lvl 50 on, but I've seen what they're capable of. WHM's don't have a near inexaustable mana pool, a little fairy summon that's capable of healing everyone, or a minature primal that can tank/dps for them. WHM may be seen as a better healer overall, but their resources are limited. And I've never took a pre-made party into dungeon runs. Random parties make things intresting in my opinion, and that's where my cautious insight comes from. If I ever were with a group that I KNOW can hande what's comming, then I'll dust off my Stone II spell. But until then, I'm going to stick with Heals and non-agressive Support. Where I feel I belong.
But to answer your qusetion, my overall glvl as a WHM is 54. Not too high, I know.

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Originally Posted by Tanaya

You're assuming the tank sucks and everyone is taking hits.

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I'm not assuming anything. I prefer the safe than sorry aproach. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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Originally Posted by Zanika

I'm not assuming anything. I prefer the safe than sorry aproach. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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So I should renew Stoneskin on the DPS who hasn't taken a hit while it still has a 20 minute timer?

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Originally Posted by Tanaya

So I should renew Stoneskin on the DPS who hasn't taken a hit while it still has a 20 minute timer?

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If Stoneskin is not on them, put it on! If you see them get hit(and no one needs to be healed), put it on! If you even supect that they've been hit, put it on! And until SE makes a way to check the Integrity of Stoneskin, put it on! I've never seen anyone avoid taking damage for ten minutes, so yes, put it on! So long as you don't spam it, you're good! Better to be safe than sorry!

*Edit* Despite what this post implies, I don't burn mana keeping this spell up.

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Originally Posted by Zanika

I'm going to stick with Heals and non-agressive Support. Where I feel I belong.
But to answer your qusetion, my overall glvl as a WHM is 54. Not too high, I know.

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That may be the difference. As you get more and more geared as a white mage, your mana becomes more flexibile. But early on, I agree - our mana isn't as free. You are fully in the right to focus on heals at that point due to being entry-level in gear, and it's not lazy. But at the level a lot of other white mages are talking about - Full Darklight, Artifact+1 weapon, there is the ability to branch out and do more and more. The same goes for SCH's - they won't be able to have their Fairy solo-heal early on, because the fairy takes a snap shot of their character when summoned and its stats are based upon them.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

But at the level a lot of other white mages are talking about - Full Darklight, Artifact+1 weapon, there is the ability to branch out and do more and more.

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I agree and disagree with this. Like I said, I've been going DPS WHM ever since Haukke Manor. The only dungeons I haven't DPS'd in was Stone Vigil (because holy shit everything hits hard there), and Amdapor Keep when I was a fresh level 50. Now I can run Amdapor Keep without a relic and in Spiritbond gear. To me, it's less about your gear, and more about knowing your limitations and getting the experience.

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Originally Posted by Tanaya

I agree and disagree with this. Like I said, I've been going DPS WHM ever since Haukke Manor. The only dungeons I haven't DPS'd in was Stone Vigil (because holy shit everything hits hard there), and Amdapor Keep when I was a fresh level 50. Now I can run Amdapor Keep without a relic and in Spiritbond gear. To me, it's less about your gear, and more about knowing your limitations and getting the experience.

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u must be lucky that alway get a good tank and no warriors~When I did AK with AF and lv49 quest weapon, I cant stop healing.
Only when I got my ifrit weapon, I began to feel a bit easier and started getting chance to DPS with AK gears...

When I ran AK the first few times, I was in full AF with GC weapon. I was a mess and nervous as hell. The trash was simple. Just do what I've always been doing. Once I got to Psycheflayer though I just always fell apart. I didn't know about disease, and Obliterate would always wreck me. I even forgot I had Cleric Stance up at one point and the tank complained that my cures were too weak (he obv didn't know about CS). Now that I've got the experience, I've had no problems since then.

I had my fair share of bad tanks, though I will say the majority I've had were at least decent. Honestly, I don't find the "bad tank" reason to be a good one. Everyone is hindered by a bad tank, but that doesn't mean we should hold ourselves back just to compensate for that tank's flaws. We tell him to man up instead.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Stupid text limits.


It's all subjective and opinion based. I do view them as lazy - if they are capable of doing, and the situation permits, and they choose not to, then they are opting out of additional work because they see it as 'not their job.' To me, this is lazy. This is like having a Co-Worker who says it's 'Not in their pay grade', or purposely acts in a way that tries to bypass having to do a specific job (I've worked in Pharmacies where the other techs try to do something else after sitting around looking at shoes to avoid getting the register, for example - another point of 'being lazy.')

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This isn't a job. This is a video game. And yeah, sometimes it is above my freaking pay level.

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As I said, it's not a bad thing. It IS just an action, and I'm not using a negative connotation for it. I respect your choice, as you believe that is the way the class should be played. But I think it's mildly hypocritical to say "SCH can keep DPS'ing, and SMN's can off-heal, but don't expect a WHM to do it!" This just puts me of the impression that you play a White Mage only.

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You "respect" other people's choices on one side of your mouth, then call them lazy on the other side of your mouth. So which is it? Do you respect them, or are they lazy? You can't have it both ways.

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Now, you did mention to renew stoneskin on 'everyone that has been hit', but very rarely in my parties will anyone save the tank take a hit in my parties. The only time I really use stoneskin in such scenarios is right before a boss pull - because then I can DPS at the start of the fight (All three bosses of AK. I even throw out DPS on the dragon boss most the time, because it downs the statues faster to have a ranged caster on them.)

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Wait wait wait...

No one but the tank gets hit in your parties? Really.

So even though you have undoubtedly awesome parties (because most of mine have turned into madness as one DPS or the other decides to ignore marks and just DPS whatever the hell they want, or the tank overpulls and can't hold threat, or the DPS (or tank) are breaking CC that CAN be used for funsies), you feel that everyone else - regardless of their party makeup or circumstances - should be doing exactly as you do, and if they don't, they're lazy?

You realize everyone isn't you?

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I do want to ask - what kind of gear are you going into these instances with? If you're still a bit newer / early on, it may well be a comfort thing that has made you believe this. But if it's just because you want to have YouTube up on your other screen without worrying about cycles, then you're purposely not playing to your maximum potential - and that, in and of itself, is lazy.

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It's a 5 man. Why the hell does it matter if someone isn't "playing to their maximum"? It's a 5 man. 5 mans are vapor. They are pointless and I don't see why anyone should be judged by a 5 man. Ye gods...

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Originally Posted by Tanaya

I had my fair share of bad tanks, though I will say the majority I've had were at least decent. Honestly, I don't find the "bad tank" reason to be a good one. Everyone is hindered by a bad tank, but that doesn't mean we should hold ourselves back just to compensate for that tank's flaws. We tell him to man up instead.

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And hence this macro come in handy:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2850/1...26e0ea_o_d.jpg

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

This isn't a job. This is a video game. And yeah, sometimes it is above my freaking pay level.

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The point of the analogy was lost the moment you decided to say 'this isn't a job', not it's not a job - but we each play a role as people do in the workforce when we are in an instance.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

You "respect" other people's choices on one side of your mouth, then call them lazy on the other side of your mouth. So which is it? Do you respect them, or are they lazy? You can't have it both ways.

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I can respect someone who's lazy. They are not a mutually exclusive thing, as you would try to have people believe -

Dictionary.com's definition of lazy.
la·zy
adjective
1.averse or disinclined to work, activity, or exertion; indolent.
2.causing idleness or indolence: a hot, lazy afternoon.

As you can see, the word in and of itself is not actually a bad thing. You're not wanting to work harder than you have to, you're choosing to be idle, etc. There's nothing wrong with that - it's your own personal playstyle. As I said, I'm happy I'm not relying on you for my healing - because I believe in pushing my class to the absolute limit.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

Wait wait wait...

No one but the tank gets hit in your parties? Really.

So even though you have undoubtedly awesome parties (because most of mine have turned into madness as one DPS or the other decides to ignore marks and just DPS whatever the hell they want, or the tank overpulls and can't hold threat, or the DPS (or tank) are breaking CC that CAN be used for funsies), you feel that everyone else - regardless of their party makeup or circumstances - should be doing exactly as you do, and if they don't, they're lazy?

You realize everyone isn't you?

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Actually, my very first post, I listed off a number of circumstances where you wouldn't want to deal damage. As I've said, it's a case-by-case situation, and purely up to healer comfort. I believe you're misinterpreting the meaning of my posts, and this is ultimately causing you to feel more insulted than you really should.

I merely said you're lazy if you choose not to damage when you are capable of doing damage to maximize your downtime. I.E., the tank's holding hate and regen's keeping him topped off - which happens in more of my parties than the bad DPS/tanks you mention. I know it's easy to Dogpile on bad tanks/dps,but I tend to find they all perform rather well. Perhaps it's my own good fortune.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

It's a 5 man. Why the hell does it matter if someone isn't "playing to their maximum"? It's a 5 man. 5 mans are vapor. They are pointless and I don't see why anyone should be judged by a 5 man. Ye gods...

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My appologies if you feel personally attacked. That is not my goal. But really, you want everyone in the party doing the best they can do - because otherwise, runs take longer, whipes might happen, etc. No one enjoys sitting through whipes or taking 60+ minuts to clear an AK.

My experience is that some bosses / enemies are more clericstance-friendly as others. And yes, it is rather likely that I get a tank in these entry-level level 50 dungeons who needs spam healing and/or can't hold aggro against more than a single Holy cast. Yesterday 2 of my 4 AK runs had tanks that I basically had to spam Cure 2 on, even on trash (or Cure 1 if DS was up) or they'd drop like a rock. The only time I dared switch into CS in that run was against bosses for initial DOTs until my stoneskin on the tank wore off, and even that was wasting precious mana that actually had us wipe once (when the tank ate an AOE and I didn't have enough mana to swiftcast-Raise them). In most of the WP runs I did, I'd get yellow aggro on all mobs if I used Holy once, and red aggro if I used it again -- so I either stopped using it, or only used it when Shroud was up. My average ilevel is around 57, btw -- still using the i55 GC weapon because lol Ifrit/Garuda.

BTW, what I do NOT like is how unresponsive cleric stance switching feels. May be latency, but I find I usually have to slam the button multiple times (despite being an 'instant' 'off-GCD' ability) to make sure I'm out, which is not a good thing when the tank has just taken a massive hit and needs a cure 2 yesterday.

My personal opinion: DPSing as a healer does help (and it certainly beats standing around looking pretty), but - like others have said - its effectiveness really depends on personal ilevel and the skill/gear of the tank. However, I feel keeping enemies CC'd makes a much bigger difference, even though much of the hard-hitting trash in WP and AK is immune to sleep for some reason; it requires the healer to keep track of multiple CC timers, use fluid aura to ride out the DR immunity (or push loose mobs away), and apply CC at the right time to maximize uptime.

I just don't understand how it is "lazy" to do your designated job. You never see a Tank or a DPS decide to start healing everybody if their HP drops low, and you'd be ridiculed if you suggested they should, because it's not their job. However yes I agree your opinion is very much because of the fact you have been fortunate not to have to put up with the sort of parties some of us do. People crying and complaining if you cast a single DPS, or if their HP drops below 90%, these are the kind of parties some of us have to deal with.

At the end of the day if we were being lazy, we would be one of these people who just goes and sits AFK in CM. But we're not. We are simply doing the job we chose. I'd much rather it took an extra 5 seconds to defeat an enemy, than risk a pointless wipe.

it is lazy because there is more to a fight then your role.

So if a healer dies right before the end of a fight and im in summoner/black mage I shouldn't keep the tank up with physick? I should just refuse because I am dps?
And please remove mantra from your bar monks, that's a healers job to pay attention to healing!

If the boss is as 1% health, and everyone else is dead, should the tank stop hitting it?
Because he is not a dps he is a tank!


This isn't people complaining about you not doing 5 dps while DPS are doing 5000.
The amount you can contribute is significant , except in coil (accuracy). Tank dps can make a difference too!


lazy bads are lazy bads.

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Originally Posted by Staris

it is lazy because there is more to a fight then your role.

So if a healer dies right before the end of a fight and im in summoner/black mage I shouldn't keep the tank up with physick? I should just refuse because I am dps?
And please remove mantra from your bar monks, that's a healers job to pay attention to healing!

If the boss is as 1% health, and everyone else is dead, should the tank stop hitting it?
Because he is not a dps he is a tank!


This isn't people complaining about you not doing 5 dps while DPS are doing 5000.
The amount you can contribute is significant , except in coil (accuracy). Tank dps can make a difference too!


lazy bads are lazy bads.

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You would make more sense if there weren't so many holes in your logic.

BTW, the Mantra a Monk uses is far, far better than anything that can be cross-classed. I guess that next you're going to tell Scholars to use Stoneskin for you. :) That makes about as much sense as what you just said.

I don't know why healers would be standing around looking at the sky. If you have nobody to heal throw some DoTs. If you have even more time throw some Holys yo. In AK I never leave cleric stance on my SCH since I have a set party with a good friend of mine tanking. I don't enjoy seeing bees and purple balls during the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

The same goes for SCH's - they won't be able to have their Fairy solo-heal early on, because the fairy takes a snap shot of their character when summoned and its stats are based upon them.

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Mabe not, but even if the fairy sucks when you first get it, (I'll see when I get that far) I imagine the small window it provides is still far more than a WHM is afforded at that time. What level did we first learn the shroud spell again? How useful was it as a MP recovery spell till lvl 48 when i get's enhanced? Remember how useless Hi-ethers and Elixers were by lvl 35? And if you use Duty finder instead of building a party beforehand, remember how little a difference these things made when it really mattered?

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Originally Posted by AunaYuuki

I don't know why healers would be standing around looking at the sky. If you have nobody to heal throw some DoTs. If you have even more time throw some Holys yo. In AK I never leave cleric stance on my SCH since I have a set party with a good friend of mine tanking. I don't enjoy seeing bees and purple balls during the dungeon.

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DPSing as SCH is so much easier, tho, because Lustrate has nothing to do with your healing power (since it returns a fixed amount of health based on the target's health) and your fairy snapshots your healing power when you summon her (so if you're not in Cleric Stance when you summon her, she never gets the 40% healing debuff that you yourself do).

Well, then in a way I'm certainly glad you prefer dungeon finders because pity to anyone running with you consistently if your'e not willing to do more than the idle cure / cure2 / regen thing. Oh right..and your stoneskin, shouldn't forget that.

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Originally Posted by Gurpsmeister

Well, then in a way I'm certainly glad you prefer dungeon finders because pity to anyone running with you consistently if your'e not willing to do more than the idle cure / cure2 / regen thing. Oh right..and your stoneskin, shouldn't forget that.

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I mostly run with a static group, actually. Tzain even made me a macro so I can laugh and poke the tank. :-P

But mostly I bug him on Mumble to please pull more because I'm bored.

Then I get to pop CDs and heal him back up. That's honestly what I enjoy. But my DF groups have uniformly been hell. :)

Edited to Add: If you think that Cure/Cure 2/Regen are all that I cast, you must not be very acquainted with your toolkit.

Also, I never said that I was 100% unwilling to ever DPS. I said that healers choosing not to DPS doesn't make them bad. Every situation is different, especially with healing. Healers don't just fight the boss, they're fighting their own party/raid members. And for someone to make a sweeping statement that if you don't DPS 100% of the time, you're just bad and wrong is, quite frankly, stupid. If you had any sense in your head you'd understand that situations are different, and the absolute worst thing you can do is make a sweeping statement like that. What about the guy without a Free Company who can only get into groups via the DF (because no relic = no run these days)? What about the guy who is in a Free Company with his friends, but his friends are either a) derpy or b) jerks and make the run a serious chore? When he loses the tank or a party member because he was busy trying to stance dance on top of actually doing his job (which would be healing), do you think they give a flying rat's posterior whether or not some post on the forums said he should be DPSing? They're going to ream him out because he wasn't doing his job at the time and someone died.

The truth is, there's absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to simply heal and not DPS during a dungeon (barring gimmick situations where you have some ability that is absolutely essential to the strat, anyway). What's boring for you isn't boring for other people, and what's safe for you to do with your static group isn't going to be safe for everyone else playing the game right at this moment. Different situations are different, and you honestly should be ashamed that the only come back the lot of you can have is to call people "bads" and tell them they're stupid. Seriously, get over yourselves.