CM AFKers

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the issue where players go AFK during dungeons without participating at all, and they will be making it so if a character does not move for a certain period of time they will be automatically kicked from the instance. This will be implemented along with the MVP voting system in patch 2.1.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the issue where players go AFK during dungeons without participating at all, and they will be making it so if a character does not move for a certain period of time they will be automatically kicked from the instance. This will be implemented along with the MVP voting system in patch 2.1.

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Very awesome. Thanks.

Something to keep in mind when putting this in, however: people can turn on auto-run in a corner, or set up a way to move every so often to pass this check (i.e. the famous drinking bird on the jump key).

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the issue where players go AFK during dungeons without participating at all, and they will be making it so if a character does not move for a certain period of time they will be automatically kicked from the instance. This will be implemented along with the MVP voting system in patch 2.1.

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A lot of the people doing this aren't actually afk though. They're there, they just don't participate. These people will still be able to just hit the occasional button while getting the full dungeon reward while staying at the start.

What needs to be done along with the planned solutions is: if a player is not in the actual boss zone(s), they get no credit/tokens.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the issue where players go AFK during dungeons without participating at all, and they will be making it so if a character does not move for a certain period of time they will be automatically kicked from the instance. This will be implemented along with the MVP voting system in patch 2.1.

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http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/115...rd-works-o.gif

I had this happen to me once. I told the party I'm leaving if that person doesn't start playing. It's not possible to start a dungeon and be afk, you have to ready up to be put in so they aren't just "whoops sorry I was afk" they are just not participating and that means that kicking them if they stand still won't do anything. When this happend in my party I saw his status in the party list go from normal to watching cutscene back to normal, so they were there and skipped the cutscene.
Glad to see your aware that it's an issue but the proposed solution won't fix anything

The game is supposed to be fun. If someone is making it less so due to deliberate and malicious action, we as a community should take the responsibility and time to report the offenders in detail and explain why it's an issue. AFKers, Griefers, Gil sellers etc.. are enabled by us the players who don't take the any action to report them.

I lead my PUG CM runs lots, and next time I see an AFKer I shall tell the group to fill out the 'report' harassment section before we start. Screen shot his name so he can't just bail and we lose his name. You can look up the character's server on the FFXIV webpage and provide it to the party so we don't name the wrong person. If the AFKer is unlucky, the GM will be there to see him standing there doing nothing OR he drops right away and another can take his place. I hope it may result in a win/win but didn't test it yet.

Last night the other tank sat at the entrance the whole time. When we questioned him he said "my controller is broken"

I wonder how he got in with a broken controller?

I guess he fixed the controller by the end, just in time i suppose. It was a pain being the only tank but we completed it still.

His first name was ryu and if i ever see him again ill let the group know what the deal is.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the issue where players go AFK during dungeons without participating at all, and they will be making it so if a character does not move for a certain period of time they will be automatically kicked from the instance. This will be implemented along with the MVP voting system in patch 2.1.

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Originally Posted by Hobo

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/115...rd-works-o.gif

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Enter instance, use macro to move in circles, system beaten again.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the issue where players go AFK during dungeons without participating at all, and they will be making it so if a character does not move for a certain period of time they will be automatically kicked from the instance. This will be implemented along with the MVP voting system in patch 2.1.

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The only problem with this if someone is rude enough to afk and let everyone else do the work. They would just do something like auto run into a wall so they won't get kicked for not moving.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the issue where players go AFK during dungeons without participating at all, and they will be making it so if a character does not move for a certain period of time they will be automatically kicked from the instance. This will be implemented along with the MVP voting system in patch 2.1.

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The MVP voting system seems like a horrible band-aid fix to the problem. I don't know why SE is so afraid to implement a vote kick system. If the majority of the group doesn't want you there, then you probably shouldn't be there anyway.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the issue where players go AFK during dungeons without participating at all, and they will be making it so if a character does not move for a certain period of time they will be automatically kicked from the instance. This will be implemented along with the MVP voting system in patch 2.1.

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AFK check systems don't do very much. I'm guilty of AFKing in WoW (during the whole 80% of AV players being AFK pre-vote kick patch), and trust me... that check system doesn't work for the overwhelming majority. It's not hard to hit a key every few minutes while you go do something else. Or in many cases, to just set up a bot or keyclone to do it. It is better than nothing though, admittedly.

this wont fix anything.... the only way to get rid of AFK's is using a vote-kick system, period.

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Originally Posted by sasakusaku

What needs to be done along with the planned solutions is: if a player is not in the actual boss zone(s), they get no credit/tokens.

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They can be in the actual zone boss and still goes AFK in the corner, getting credit but not contributing. It should be a check on how much damage you are contributing to the boss, and how much hp you are healing - put a set of minimum numbers to get rewarded.

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Originally Posted by Pikachew

The MVP voting system seems like a horrible band-aid fix to the problem. I don't know why SE is so afraid to implement a vote kick system. If the majority of the group doesn't want you there, then you probably shouldn't be there anyway.

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Agreed.

Vote kick and Minimum Gear Requirements.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

They can be in the actual zone boss and still goes AFK in the corner, getting credit but not contributing. It should be a check on how much damage you are contributing to the boss, and how much hp you are healing - put a set of minimum numbers to get rewarded.

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They would actually have to move to the boss zone and if they persist to afk, you can simply drag mobs on em and get them killed...over and over until their gear breaks. /evil.

I do not like the concept of basing it on contribution, what happens if some one D/Cs during a fight or legitimately has to go afk to address a RL problem? You open a whole can of worms that could effect the non-afkers going this route.

If players are required to actually be in the boss zone to get credit means they can't just que up and sit idle at the entrance like they are doing now: they actually have to MOVE to each boss in order to get credit.

In every single MMO there have been a Kick button where party votes... some is majority to kick and other needs to be agreed by everyone.
Positive Points:
- Kick AFK people.
- Kick people that just get upset because someone said something and will pretend to be afk while chatting ingame moving from time to time a bit.
- Kick trolls (people that is just bored and go to instances screwing the experience/run for the other players).
- Kick insolent players (who screw up and then come rage at the other players calling bad names,etc)

Negative Points:
- Kick abuse (kicking every single "newbie" because it's their first time).

So overall there is 4 positive points against 1 negative. Therefore my question is: Can we have a kick feature for christmas has a present?

P.S. - This is not only for CM. AK, WP, and even low level dungeons have this problem.

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Originally Posted by Pikachew

I don't know why SE is so afraid to implement a vote kick system. If the majority of the group doesn't want you there, then you probably shouldn't be there anyway.

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SE surely is "afraid" to implement a vote kick system, solely based on the fact that many players these days don't know how to play nicely with each-other anymore. Its actually that simple.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the issue where players go AFK during dungeons without participating at all, and they will be making it so if a character does not move for a certain period of time they will be automatically kicked from the instance. This will be implemented along with the MVP voting system in patch 2.1.

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I had a member earlier that was NOT afk and just stood in the beginning of the map talking to us. This does not solve the issue. Also waiting till 2.1 is a mistake. This problem will get no better (since the afker loses nothing) and more people will begin to do this.

I don't like AFK kick. There are many legit reasons why to AFK and the party always consents to it. Examples include:

Baby crying
Phone calls
Making a sandwich
Going Toilet
Go to the store around the corner for a soda
Any type of Real Life emergencies

I know they are silly reasons for most of you, but when you are actually having fun with a group (which is having no trouble to keep going thru the dungeon with 1 less member,) they usually don't mind someone go afk for well over 10 minutes.

Usually I make my own parties with FC members and we end up one or two DDs short, so we adopt them from the Duty Finder. We are usually having a blast, and when someone has to afk, we simply let them. None of the random DDs have ever complained about people AFKing for more than 10, 20 or even 30 minutes because we always find ways to amuse ourselves while waiting. Our dungeon runs have always been stressless and a lot of fun.

If you implement AFK kick in dungeons, you are adding an extra strain to our parties. Our relaxed, laid back leisure time in the dungeons will be all like "Oh no! I have to take care of Real Life, but I'm afraid that I will be kicked from the dungeon when I come back!" And then, we get some random people as replacement who might end up being a moron that want to speed run and stuff. Meanwhile our original party member is back on the computer but have no means to come back to our party.
I don't want that kind of game !!

Please let our party decide how we want to play !! Don't kick us from the dungeons because we had an emergency !!

Vote Kick is many times a better solution than automated kick due to arbitrary rules.

a lot don't really think things through when they toss ideas on here. There could be issues with "Vote kick" for example DF puts you in a group of 5-7 premade people. You do most the dungeon with the whole group and from the start they planned to kick you just before you get your rewards just because they think it's funny or they are greedy and want the loot for their own group. This will just end up with more complainers on here. SE can't just go put in idea's that have flaws to them. That may solve 1 problem but can easily cause another one and that is not a solution.

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Originally Posted by Mere

I don't like AFK kick. There are many legit reasons why to AFK and the party always consents to it. Examples include:

Baby crying
Phone calls
Making a sandwich
Going Toilet
Go to the store around the corner for a soda
Any type of Real Life emergencies

"snip"

Vote Kick is many times a better solution than automated kick due to arbitrary rules.

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Agreed. I see no reason for a timer so long as we get a vote kick option. I've been in a number of easy going laid back FC runs and I don't want an afk timer coming anywhere near that. Voting is more then enough. Makes no sense to have a timer if parties can just kick leeches. Just ruining it for the legit players.

This game also needs a cross-server blacklist, BADLY! Need an easy way to block out the rage crybabies.

They're afraid that in a random PUG system like DF, the ability to kick others in any fashion might be abused. That's a valid concern I must admit, but SE needs to consider this: 1)there was abuse in FFXI end game but it was few and far between, it was largely successful meaning abuse wasn't wide spread and rarely happened in the grand scheme of things, and everything was fine. 2)In other MMOs where the same system is implemented and players aren't graced with the ability to kick people from group because it's so mean spirited or something, they are plagued by AFK players, by players with sub par gear trying to skip farming content and go for the best stuff thereby dragging everyone else down when they had to carry their weight, by players that get a kick out of grieving, and by disruptive players that expects a random PUG system via a que to group them with leet geared folk.

This is all Duty Finder will ever be without the ability to kick people who shouldn't be in the group for one reason or another. We WILL see a kick option in the future. I can live with it in a freebie MMO but I will not in a pay game and SE needs to nip that free MMO mentality in it's ass before it spreads frustration and hate amongst the playerbase. They'll learn, I just wish they could learn right now instead of ignoring the feedback and going straight for their original plan. We're MMO gamers, ya know. We have far more experience than any game dev ever will with games because we're not locked behind a computer working on game design for 8-12+ hours a day. We're playing games for, sadly in some cases, 8-12 + hours a day. So quite frankly we know better on how to solve issues within a system like duty finder. We've been there, done that, and done seen humanity at it's worst. No offense to the masters of Final Fantasy, but we just know better in this one little tiny case. Please spare us waiting for many months before you give in and agree and do what must be done, and do it now instead. Freebie MMOs can afford to say stick it, but I doubt a pay game can.

i want vote bad after end duty. when people get vote bad enough he can't use duty for xxxx hr or xxxx day. this will make game more good manner. and can use in other case like rude people or alot reason. just like have 20 vote bad must wait 1hr after every duty. have 30 vote 2hr 50 vote 1day 100 vote can't use duty until reset next month. and can reset by pay gil or seal -3-b for penalty. like pay 100k or 10k seal for - 10 vote lol. and can use it when people leave to his personal party or team call..make other fail duty. but it should be limit vote bad per day like 1-2 point. for make it important to not easy use.

kick out he will back to make something bad to other duty.and will forget soon... but if have bad vote point people in fc and ls will known how this people bad.. so people must do good manner for look good in his social too.

vote kick when people got 90000 problem.. for find other one replace it will be painful. when if he will back in 5 min but people don't wanna wait. and force other people kick that one out.

Players should leave if anyone tries to AFK or it will just keep happening, and isn't the Leader capable of kicking others, if so and the Leader doesn't kick they are with the that one that is AFK

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the issue where players go AFK during dungeons without participating at all, and they will be making it so if a character does not move for a certain period of time they will be automatically kicked from the instance. This will be implemented along with the MVP voting system in patch 2.1.

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If you haven't already, you should put a check in for aggro (hate), while the not moving will help, the hate check would also be a good check to make sure someone doesn't just zone in and auto run into a corner. :)

Edit:

To add more info, think of it like the FATES where we get ranked based off hate. There could be checks in the game, and while you'll need to balance it, it might be a real help from keeping people running on auto follow or in place.

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Originally Posted by Camate

The development team will be making it so if a character does not move for a certain period of time they will be automatically kicked from the instance.

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You have to think two steps ahead. This will just be solved by people periodically pushing a button, as others said.

At least add a checkpoint system so the AFKer at least has to run past most of the boss areas. For example if there is 4 bosses, require someone to have passed 2 of the boss areas. Something everyone does if they run from start to finish (since shortcuts drop you off at an earlier boss point). To participate in half the dungeon (and not even forced to participate in half the bosses) should not be a too high requirement to get any rewards.

AFKers could still wait to the end and run up to the final battle or so to get their points, but at least it requires them to actually move through the dungeon.

Edit: People who join mid-dungeon would on the other hand not be forced to do this.

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Originally Posted by sasakusaku

What needs to be done along with the planned solutions is: if a player is not in the actual boss zone(s), they get no credit/tokens.

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Could easily abuse this. If someone is still watching cutscene, due to slow loading times (PS3 or a low end computer), those impatient can zip through and lock them out, preventing those loading to get the reward.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the issue where players go AFK during dungeons without participating at all, and they will be making it so if a character does not move for a certain period of time they will be automatically kicked from the instance. This will be implemented along with the MVP voting system in patch 2.1.

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I don't like that idea. what if the player need to go away from keyboard and kindly told the others? he will be kicked out of the instanced too? even if the other members allowed him to do so?

why don't add the vote kick system instead of that auto-kick people who doesn't move?

Just make it so if you don't exit through the actual dungeon exit you don't get the reward and a 5 min timer starts as soon as last boss goes down and auto kicks anyone left in the instance giving them no reward.

Just don't reward them for failure to participate. In 1.0, when doing caravan quests, your reward was based on how much you participated. If you were a leech and just tagged along without doing much, if anything, you got little or no reward. Let's do the same here. Not participating is not participating, and you shouldn't get a reward for it. As other people have noted, simply kicking them for sitting idle won't work when they can just hit a button.

Also, for those running afk to go to the store or make food, I'm sorry, but you really should have thought about taking care of that before going into queue. It's selfish and inconvenient to the rest of the party, and could have either waited for the next run or been taken care of before you went in.

For emergency situations, since emergencies are just that, there's no timer as to when you'll be back. Exit the instance and make room for someone else. If you're a parent with a crying baby, I'm sorry about that, too, but that's a priority, not making people wait for you in a dungeon.

btw i don't like idea about kick. it will have some case like some FC he lack of healer 1. so all go duty with duty healer but after join 10 min . his fc healer log in and all vote kick duty one and call his friend join duty by progress .... it possible so i want make penalty more then kick out

Funny how no matter what SE or any MMO dev does, people will always find a way to abuse things. Vote to Kick will be abused. Lack of Vote to Kick will be abused. AFK Kick will be circumvented. Only real way to "fix" this issue is by adding a contribution mechanic so you have to meet a minimum standard to get any credit but if something like this were to be implemented, it's possible to mess with legit players for a variety of reasons (fight mechanics/buggy implementation).

The AFK auto kick though should be implemented for PvP instances however since dead weight is even more detrimental. It's use though all depends on how PvP gear will be earned.

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Originally Posted by Mere

I don't like AFK kick. There are many legit reasons why to AFK and the party always consents to it. Examples include:

Baby crying
Phone calls
Making a sandwich
Going Toilet
Go to the store around the corner for a soda
Any type of Real Life emergencies

Please let our party decide how we want to play !! Don't kick us from the dungeons because we had an emergency !!

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Really? Making a sandwich?... oh it gets better, Go to the store around the corner for a soda? Wait! AFK, I gotta go watch The Matrix Trilogy, brb 4 hours.

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Originally Posted by CielWulfe

It's selfish and inconvenient to the rest of the party, and could have either waited for the next run or been taken care of before you went in.

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Originally Posted by nekochen

Really? Making a sandwich?... oh it gets better, Go to the store around the corner for a soda? Wait! AFK, I gotta go watch The Matrix Trilogy, brb 4 hours.

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I'm sorry you guys have so bad and stressful parties... but not everyone play like you. Our parties are relaxed, and if someone needs to AFK in the middle of the run for whatever reason, we just let them. They usually come back in a couple of minutes, some times things get complicated and might take them 10 mins or more. But it doesn't matter since the party agree to it and are having no trouble reaching the next boss or even killing it while the other guy is AFK. We get the dungeon done and everyone had a good time despite of someone being absent for half of the run.

I guess this is all too strange to you. By your replies I can tell you have the worst time running dungeons and get angry at every little thing. I hope one day we meet on the Duty Finder so you can see what I'm talking about. Dungeons can be fun too!

Now back to the subject: There are many ways for Vote Kick not be abused.

Some things I can think of:

You cannot kick after reaching certain room (for example, first boss).
You can only kick within the first 20 minutes of the run (or any other arbitrary amount. You can tell when someone is just there to grief almost since the start of the run.)
The person cannot be kicked until the boss' treasure has been given to someone. (Meaning, everyone has to loot and the prize has to go to someone's inventory before you can kick anyone).
You cannot kick during a fight/boss fight.

I also like what other people said about checking for contribution. There is a system that do just that in FATEs, so implement it over to dungeons and check how much enmity has a player generated. After reaching a certain point (like it would be for bronze or silver medal in FATEs), that person cannot be kicked. It just means that this person is doing his job regardless if the party likes him/her or not.

Someone who is going to play and have fun should have no trouble meeting any of those criteria. Those who just want to be carried or grief would have too much work just to catch up that hopefully will find it pointless and stop behaving that way... or just be kicked.

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Originally Posted by CielWulfe

Just don't reward them for failure to participate. In 1.0, when doing caravan quests, your reward was based on how much you participated. If you were a leech and just tagged along without doing much, if anything, you got little or no reward. Let's do the same here. Not participating is not participating, and you shouldn't get a reward for it. As other people have noted, simply kicking them for sitting idle won't work when they can just hit a button.

Also, for those running afk to go to the store or make food, I'm sorry, but you really should have thought about taking care of that before going into queue. It's selfish and inconvenient to the rest of the party, and could have either waited for the next run or been taken care of before you went in.

For emergency situations, since emergencies are just that, there's no timer as to when you'll be back. Exit the instance and make room for someone else. If you're a parent with a crying baby, I'm sorry about that, too, but that's a priority, not making people wait for you in a dungeon.

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Like Like Like ♥

I fully sipport VTK options, but if we're not getting it there needs to be a measuring tool for participation.

A simpler option would be to remove a person from a party if they don't appear in the same zone as the rest after a few minutes, so say if you haven't gone through the CM Disposal Chute, or into the area Livia spawns in when she's up, you're removed. It would also, lets say, encourage folks not to sit gazing at the cutscenes for too long.

How about people use the bathroom, go get snacks, go to the store, etc. BEFORE they queue up for a dungeon that they know is going to take 30-60 minutes, and has a finite amount of time to complete?

How about you give me 3k for the food I just used that is sitting there ticking down while I wait, because you didn't have the foresight to go to the bathroom before you started? 3k to replace the food I used because you decided to waste my time and go powder your nose in the middle of a dungeon run.

As far as I'm concerned, if you have any emergency that will take longer than 2 minutes TOPS, you should just say you have things you need to attend to and that you need to leave. Going AFK for any extended period of time for legit emergencies, or just because you want to leech, are equally as bad.

I don't know if there is anything that could keep this kind of behavior down accept for reporting the individual, there will always be a loop hole that they will find to stay in the instance to keep from being booted.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the issue where players go AFK during dungeons without participating at all, and they will be making it so if a character does not move for a certain period of time they will be automatically kicked from the instance. This will be implemented along with the MVP voting system in patch 2.1.

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I'd really like what's the rationale here. People who knowingly AFK in dungeons to leech will just take it one step further and enable auto-run against a wall, or move a yalm every 10 minutes or something along the lines of that. I just can't imagine that this will have any noticeable positive effect.

I'd think that a system which measures amount of participation, and in case there is no / very little participation, you won't get any reward, is a better solution.