From Epic story to Boring Grind Why I quit FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by SafeOnBlock

After running Castrum for 40 hours, which is completely insane to expect players to do, and yes I know there are other ways to earn tomes but lets be honest non are as efficient as running Castrum in either time or tomes gained, I had already felt my desire to play FFXIV waning. However, I pushed on Chimera, Hydra, and Garuda rekindled the desire and I once again started crafting/gathering/leveling other jobs/and running AK. It was the last thing that did in the game for me. I realized that even if I capped out the tomes each week for AK It would take me around 4 months to get my Valor set. I had to ask myself if I could grind jobs/castrum for another 50 hours per job for my DL set/ and AK again for 4 more months if I ever wanted to switch jobs. I understand why they put caps in. I get that they dont want players to burn through content to fast but asking players to run AK for 4 months is insanity.

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your allready bored and yet you still havent even reached end game not even relic for that matter you dont have to grind CM only there are mor options and after update its going to be even easier and if your aiming at only Valor set well gl i rather save myth for weapon upgrades

if you want to quit leave allready and stop crying about how the game is when you havent reach all the content the game has to offer and the other content that will come such as crystal tower

After this update people will still run the fastest dungeon to get tomes from and complain that there aren't any other VIABLE dungeons.

VIABLE.

40 hours of CM + whatever it took to reach 50 (50 to 100 hours?). Sounds like great value for non-full price game!

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Originally Posted by vigilante

your allready bored and yet you still havent even reached end game not even relic for that matter you dont have to grind CM only there are mor options and after update its going to be even easier and if your aiming at only Valor set well gl i rather save myth for weapon upgrades

if you want to quit leave allready and stop crying about how the game is when you havent reach all the content the game has to offer and the other content that will come such as crystal tower

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Crystal tower is going to be ilvl 80 gear, what is the point when alot of people can get/have ilvl 90 already in almost 1/2 there slots?

yup this almost happened to me. good thing i reached bahamut's coil. before my sub went off... imo i think they should shorten the "grind" or give more dungeons for players to do after the story and let players experience the primal HMs then try BC.

AK and CM is fun but at least add some variety that is worth running. kinda short solution that i can think of is to limit of getting tombstones for AK and CM to 2 runs per week and ALL the previous dungeons have hard mode and also drop tombstones also has a 2 time limit of getting tombstones.

(2 time limit of getting tombstones) but you can still enter the dungeon if you wanna help your friends etc. same thing should happen in BC (limit the loot you can get but you can still enter)

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Originally Posted by Nithryok

Crystal tower is going to be ilvl 80 gear, what is the point when alot of people can get/have ilvl 90 already in almost 1/2 there slots?

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Do it because its new content? Does everything have to be about getting new gear?

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Originally Posted by Nithryok

Crystal tower is going to be ilvl 80 gear, what is the point when alot of people can get/have ilvl 90 already in almost 1/2 there slots?

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2.1 should be out in November. Most of the playerbase is stuck on Titan. I doubt anyone will be getting i90 in half their slots by November.

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Originally Posted by Ketsufuma

oh look another person deciding on rushing everything at once instead of enjoying the game and its content for what is is~

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People need to really stop assuming this... at this point it's not "rushing everything" it's the fact that once u finish story you are stuck doing CM/Prae/AK for efficient tome grinding.

It's a stupid and boring process that Square didn't really think through...

Solution would be to add level 80 versions of all the 1-45 dungeons and award players with 100 tomes for completion.

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Originally Posted by Jess72

People need to really stop assuming this... at this point it's not "rushing everything" it's the fact that once u finish story you are stuck doing CM/Prae/AK for /efficient/ tome grinding.

It's a stupid and boring process that Square didn't really think through...

Solution would be to add level 80 versions of all the 1-45 dungeons and award players with 100 tomes for completion.

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Efficient. Ways. To. Get. Tomes.

If they added level 80 versions of the dungeons, you would still run Castrum because it is the fastest and you can skip all the mobs.

You are the problem. Not the game. Not Square. You're refusal to do anything but what you personally consider "Efficient" is the problem.

Stop expecting Square to make a game specifically for you, and realize that this game has to last a large group of people for a long time.

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Originally Posted by SolviteSekai

Why dont these people realize that in 4 months there will be new sets of gear to obtain?

You wont need 4 months to obtain gear on every character because there is an update every three months.

Use your brains.

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I agree with you, so in 4 months the gear that you run AK for countless times is going to be useless and now we have to grind CT for 4 months to get more gear that will be useless by then. No matter how you spell it, after you hit lvl 50 the game is boring, honestly how can you look at running AK for 300 tomes every week fun?There is no end game content at all to keep people interested "unless" you are in a coil FC or such and then you get to run it till you beat it(lock out) and then what is there to do? O ya run AK but why since you are capped on tokens and the gear in there cant be traded sold or even broken down so its pointless (les not forget that we can turn them in for GC seals, O but wait we cap at 50k and there is NOTHING to buy beside the hatchling so thats pointless). Not just what i mentioned but lets throw in another job, so its going to take you 4 months of farming myth tokens to gear up 1 class and now lets say we have 3 more jobs to 50 and we are what, looking at a year to gear those other 3 up not counting the 4 months for our first job. The current wow standard of gear does not work with this game's multi class system on one character.

Also this has nothing to do with rushing, you can hit 50 in 5 days of playing less if you just run fates, heck i took BLM to 30 in one day just doing fates, leveling in this game is easy as heck, there is no challenge and that is part of the problem. I dont see how people can honestly call something new content by just slapping "EXTREME" on it and making it harder, no matter what its still the same mob ( talking about the extreme modes coming) thats going to do the same stuff just maybe in a different order and do more damage.

The game is stale and it doesn't look to be getting any better any time soon.

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Originally Posted by SolviteSekai

Efficient. Ways. To. Get. Tomes.

If they added level 80 versions of the dungeons, you would still run Castrum because it is the fastest and you can skip all the mobs.

You are the problem. Not the game. Not Square. You're refusal to do anything but what you personally consider "Efficient" is the problem.

Stop expecting Square to make a game specifically for you, and realize that this game has to last a large group of people for a long time.

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Your whole post screams fan boi all over it (not just this one either). If you are forced to do something to achieve a goal are you not going to do it the most efficient way possible? or would you rather people just slam their heads against a wall lol. What the person is talking about is variety, something different to do other then grind AK to cap each week or run CM to cap. If you would pull your head out of the Squares behind you would see that the game is bland once you get past the O' pretty pretty stage and hit the grind. Just by looking at you on the loadestone it seems you just mapped AK yesterday.... so honestly you have no foot to stand on to come in here spouting your fan boi isms when you haven't even experienced what most in this post are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Nithryok

Crystal tower is going to be ilvl 80 gear, what is the point when alot of people can get/have ilvl 90 already in almost 1/2 there slots?

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We have a winner. I agree how loot being a moot point in CT, it will be nice to see something new but after the new has worn off what reason is there to go back? Since the gear wont be an upgrade we are back to running AK for myth tomes as it stands now. I am not saying CT wouldnt be a source of tomes but if we go off how many you get from running the coil, i am guessing it wouldn't be worth the trouble to run it just for tomes.

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Originally Posted by Kuvu

Mad for no reason.

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I'm definitely not a Square Enix fanboy. They ruined the SRPG Final Fantasies and their signature series is now Disney characters fighting with anime girls.

I'm a fanboy of people being smart. You aren't forced to run AK over and over. You force yourself to run AK over and over.

You claim to be good, go to Coil. i90 gear drops in Coil. Don't raid the forums.

/goodbye

"Hot fix to raise cap drops on the 14th"
"Patch 2.1 drops"
"Patch 2.2. drops"

Yeah myth cap is > 300, philo is easier to obtain, people are IL 80+ pugging Crystal Tower in the DF and BC Turn 5 goes down all over the place.

"You come back"
"LFG Blah"

/"No way, your still in DL, go gear up"

Oh wait, Game designers already address this problem in the HOTFIX coming in less then 24 hour time

So lets make 1000000 threads about how AK is the only place to get myth tome, the cap is too low and it takes 4 months, and everything else evolved around it.

I don't really get how people sub for a month, then quit 30 days before the end game patch comes out.

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Originally Posted by Nithryok

Crystal tower is going to be ilvl 80 gear, what is the point when alot of people can get/have ilvl 90 already in almost 1/2 there slots?

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Imma go way out on a limb here and claim that you're severely overestimating the amount of people that are running Coil at this time.

this game released end of August. In November (less then 3 months after release) a major update is already arriving with new content and new ways of obtaining tomes. Maybe a cap increase is around the corner soon after the update and we don't know yet. Most probably trash mobs will be used to increase the number of tomes dropped per instance with the fix implemented today. I mean, let's be honest, I don't think there is much room for complaining.

Of course if you want an AF+1/Allagan set for every job NOW, MMORPG not the right place for you. And, OP, think for one second, EVEN if you actually GOT all your equip by tomorrow, what would you do with it? I'll tell you what I think you would do: come here and say you're gonna quit cause not enough content to be done.

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Originally Posted by SolviteSekai

2.1 should be out in November. Most of the playerbase is stuck on Titan. I doubt anyone will be getting i90 in half their slots by November.

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heh. even if the forum might make it sound differently, I highly doubt most of the playerbase is even anywhere near lvl 50 yet. the level-curve of this game is obviously a little higher because of the majority of legacy players having at least 2-3 classes/jobs at 50, but even if htey act that way, they aren't the actual majority of players. even the majority of 1.0 players probably aren't lvl 50 yet. and obviously the people who are 50 on the new servers aren't the majority, either, even though it may feel that way (when you are 50 yourself you naturally mostly do what lvl 50s do, so you get a slightly distorded view of the grand scheme)

skimmed thread, might have already been posted, but. ..

They have already said they will raise myth cap and increase tome drops as more content is introduced.

Also you can get ilevel 90 gear from coil. soon you will be able to get ilevel 80 gear from crystal Tower too, which will be fine for coil. You need l literally never Farm tomes again.

welcome to MMO gaming

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Originally Posted by LaralnKornera

Man, Wrath of the lich king stuff should of been there at launch...goodness why didn't steam add big picture mode at launch... while we are at it, why didn't Apple release Siri and IOS7 when they first released the Iphone series.

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What a poor attempt at being sarcastic. I'm not going to even bother explaining why your points make no sense. instead i'll give you the numbers:

An original game design with an endgame currency that can be gained from one single source only at a rate of 12 ish% of the weekly cap per hour (factory the DF queues), while said weekly cap is about 5% of the total currency needed to complete the gear set is suicidal game design.

Guess what? SE might not agree but i bet that the dwindling numbers got them all motivated to implement the upcoming 2.05, widening not only the sources of both currency, but also the amount. Something had to be done and the OP is right in thinking that this sort of desing shouldnt make it out of the brainstorming, clearly.

Considering 1.0 though, it is clear that SE has some sort of blind faith in their players being ok to eat sh*t with a smile and a thanks. Mind you they might have been reading your posts.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

People who rush to endgame, then finish it so fast they are left wondering where all the content is for $100 Alex.

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It's the middle of October. Game was re-released in August. Original game shipped 3 years ago. How long do you expect people to dilly-dally around? Especially when YoshiP himself that leveling itself is intended to be short, that endgame is the REAL beginning of the game? It's not our fault YoshiP designed the game's leveling and endgame progression poorly.

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Originally Posted by Aleksandr

I agree... I remember that one dungeon in Skyrim which I ran 50 times to get my Dragon Born Axe +1.

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Pauses to allow the sarcasm it's due.
Nope never ran any such dungeon, and with mods I have run a tremendous number of quests. Some good, some bad, some happy some sad, some clever some dumb.

I think this would have been fixed if leveling to 50 was not so easy on your first class. I miss the days when leveling could take months and not 4-5 days. Having no big scale pvp and mini-games at launch was in my opinion a bad decision.

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Originally Posted by Dethevn

Even WoW had some variety; 5-6 Heroics instead of 1 clear cut efficient route. And they didn't involve having to skip cutscenes and find 7 other people. Don't even bring up duty finder, a.k.a. 3 people AFK finder.

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I don't know when you started playing WoW, but from personal experience, I can assure you that 1 month after launch, there were not "5-6 Heroics". You're the one missing the point: this game is brand new; with all MMOs, you need to be patient for content additions, quality of life improvements, etc.

The game is really lacking any sort of magic. I was loving it right up until the point that I wasn't. I log in to cap myth now, the end. Maybe a few weeks left in me before I come to the realization that it's a road to nowhere.

I'm noticing a trend here:

As I said about six months ago, those who would rush to endgame content would find themselves bored quickly and hate the tredmil endgame. Those who are taking their time are still having a blast.

We're about... just under thirty days away before the initial swell of players that just jumped into the game to hop on a bandwagon won't be in anymore. By that time, 2.1 will be launched and those genuinely waiting for more content will get it. Though, I don't think we're getting access to any more levels of the Coil this time around, so those who rushed likely won't feel any better about the situation.

Regardless, talking about bleeding numbers at this time is a moot point. We haven't even hit the initial subscription decline that comes with every MMO post launch. It's not blind faith to set your initial success marker low. How quickly did we forget that we blew up the servers and they had to expand them twice, with a third on the way.

People need to understand that there isn't much to do in this game that's why everyone is complaining, It's not about rushing the content or anything, hell i realize this when i got my 3rd piece of darklight that i will be making many more visits to prae/ak. Sure coil is fun and all but the grind is tedious to get to that level. I have friends that clear all the way to turn 4 in 1-2 days, after that 8 AK runs and log off. Now that i have full DL gear/Relic and just done 3 AK runs im officially burned out before even doing coil. Maybe ill give it a try this week but let's be honest here is it worth paying 15 a month to eat the same s hit everyday?


Have fun playing like i once did and hopefully you look pass your fanboism and come to realization that you will be running the same shit over and over for 11 pieces of darklight!

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Originally Posted by traja

So is he wrong? I haven't tried end game yet so I am genuinely curious. I see people defending SE on this but no one is refuting anything he said. Is it truly so bad that the only solution to what the OP described is to avoid the end game completely or submit yourself to an absolutely ludicrously monotonous grind for months and months?

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Pretty much.

To all the People "Go do coils cause you don't need all relic gear" You do know there is a cap on that too? "Oh did coils 1,2,4 this week didn't get any drops guess I will have to wait another week".

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

People who rush to endgame, then finish it so fast they are left wondering where all the content is for $100 Alex.

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And another thing the game has been out for almost 2 months if you started at EA/Launch and don't have at least one job to 50 that's your fault, So stop telling people to quit rushing to 50 when it takes like 40hrs of fates to get to 50 and that's a second time around.

I think the problem is, end game comes too fast. I always liked the FFXI formula. End game took forever to make it to, but you didn't have to grind the same dungeon 50 times. I played that game for 1 whole year and still never had one max level job. The only reason I quit was due to gil sellers ruining my experience. But FFXI is the standard I hold every new MMO to, and nobody ever meets the bill. Even in this new FFXIV: ARR, I haven't found the fun and excitement I had in FFXI.

I myself am in no hurry for end game because I don't find dungeon grinds appealing. This whole WoW formula of hurry up and get to the end just to grind one dungeon is a real turn-off. I wish SE would stick to their roots and make another real MMO, that took thought, work, and time to get to the end.

A perfect example would be to take FFXI's leveling concepts (may be a little less grindy) and add the new improved mechanics like gathering while not competing for nodes, maps, and other new features that MMO's have adopted to improve over the years.

SE should have kept skill chains too! Skill Chains and Magic Bursts made fighting dynamic and fun. Every party was a different experience even if it was the same makeup. Something as simple as changing weapons could provide for different skill chains. And frankly, rotation fighting is boring... Yea, find your best rotation and use it every single fight for the rest of the games life... Why does it seem MMO's are devolving instead of evolving?

Instead SE took the WoW clone route sadly. I'm not sure why they would do such a thing. FFXI had substanace and everything you got felt like you earned it, WoW is just an end dungeon mindless DPS race. Not sure why others are following suit. It's a horrible MMO formula made for kids with no patience.

I remember how FFXI used to feel like a real adventure. Now it's just do this string of quests to get to the next hub of quests with the whole game mapped out for you. I never thought that back while I was playing FFXI and hearing these stories about how WoW is sooo easy to solo in and yada, yada, that MMO's would be doomed forever....

No game is going to be successful if the endgame can be achieved in just a couple months. Ignore what the impatient have to say about MMO's and grinding. Stick to your roots SE and make this game have longevity like FFXI did. Stop giving away your game and make players earn their way through again. Not sure if this game can be totally fixed to these standards that us gamers used to have. But keep this stuff in mind for future content if you want to be a real success.

I was by no means rushing to endgame. I actually took it slowly, read all quest descriptions, helped guildies, screwed around. And yet I am now there. Full DL, relic+1 and nothing to do. Some people say level up another class. Why should I? One class is enough, really. Fate grinding to 50 and get another DL set? No, thanks.

I logged on today, wanted to grind some tomes. Instances were full because it's the AK monday. So I couldn't even do that. Tried to gather a bit, got bored, logged off. Say what you want in defense of SE, but I've never played a MMO that let the players reach endgame this fast and not give them any long-term goal.

Sure, there is a huge update coming. But how long will it take a full DL/relic person to finish the Crystal Tower and Coil? I don't know, maybe a month? And then what, wait another 3 months for an update? What I personally want from a MMO is a long-term goal. I don't really care what it is. But without a long-term goal I don't see a reason to play.

I love this game, like a lot. Probably more than I should. I'm on like 6-10 hours a day.

But the OP has a point.

I honestly don't think the problem with grinding CM is the grinding itself. I love doing AK, Garuda, Ifrit, WP, and I could do those all day. CM is just a really boring instance, overall. I'm generally fine with grinding it, but I just put something on TV and tune out for the 40 minutes I'm in there. CM isn't really a FUN instance, it's more of an efficient instance (for getting DL) and that's why I put up with it.

On the other hand, we're a little less than 2 months into the game so I cut it a bit of slack. From what I've been reading with the Dev stuff they at least seem aware of the problem and seem to be willing to try to fix it.. and I mean it's not like they can re-do CM to make it fun so they gotta kinda work around it.

The root of the problem isn't in the game's base, so much as it is in the player's greed.

Just now, someone confessed to giving up entertainment value for the sake of efficiency. Who's fault is it when someone opts for the least entertainment, just because it will get them the goodies faster? Is it truely that much of a need to sit there and do the absolutely most time efficient thing in something that is designed, to be a pastime?

This sort of approach is self-defeating, and staggering that the blame is put on the developers for people who'd rather work instead of play.

Darklight/Relic/Bahamut's Coil is not a necessity for life, and you don't need to be hitting the cap on tomes every week, especially when it is already known that the requirements will decay over time.

I want it now!.. not really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRTkCHE1sS4

Watch cut scenes in inn summore. This is what happens.

The story continues in behemoths coil, just...hard to get through it. Hell, crystal towers is supposed to have story as well. You can't expect all 100% of the story to be out in the first patch did you?

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Originally Posted by Dethevn

Because running the same dungeon 50 times to get geared is "enjoying the game and its content for what it is". You can run the same dungeon 10 times in 1 day, or 1 time for 10 days, it's still going to be repetitive and boring..

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You would not be running the same dungeon 50 times if you had not rushed to the end. You would be experiencing the "Other options" they are adding with today's patch. I kinda hate that people do spend all day every day on the game when it first comes out to rush to 50 ( or how ever else you do it) cause I now feel rushed to hurry up and get to 50 so I can get a main tank raid spot. I am finding myself playing the game every minute of every hour to keep up when I would rather be spending more time with my new born daughter. Those of you who are already level 50 make up a very small percentage of the gaming population and I hope that the devs do not bend over backwards modifying the game to make you happy.

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Originally Posted by SolviteSekai

2.1 should be out in November. Most of the playerbase is stuck on Titan. I doubt anyone will be getting i90 in half their slots by November.

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Sword
Af2 hat
Af2 chest
Allagan legs
Allagan boots

I'm getting close to half my slots

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Originally Posted by Ketsufuma

oh look another person deciding on rushing everything at once instead of enjoying the game and its content for what is is~

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Oh look another person telling others how they should play the game.

game has been out for over a month. people are still acusing others of rushing.
are you for real?!