Black Mage Dps Rotation Guide! in 90 Seconds!

I'm starting to notice tendencies that a lot of BLMs got no idea about their rotation, resulting in beyond terrible DPS.

lol @ complicated rotation (no nub)

Always spam scathe crew checking in...

brb godlike mobility with +20% Crit chance

Stack spell speed and you're golden

Scathe is 120 potency. With 20% chance for double damage (crit is not double), that makes it 120+.2*120 = 142 potency.

Blizzard 1 has 150 potency making Scathe the lowest potency spell in the THM class that does damage.

Yes - you have mobility with it and you can kite with it, but it's not something you want to cast if it can be helped.

Use Flare only when you have Convert up
OR
Use Flare only when you have transpose, Firestarter and Thundercloud up
OR
Use Flare only when you have transpose, swiftcast, Firestarter/Thundercloud up

And of course, it's still situational. Also, if you have mp potions that would be something else.

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Originally Posted by Umero

Use Flare only when you have Convert up
OR
Use Flare only when you have transpose, Firestarter and Thundercloud up
OR
Use Flare only when you have transpose, swiftcast, Firestarter/Thundercloud up

And of course, it's still situational. Also, if you have mp potions that would be something else.

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All of the above are true

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

Scathe is 120 potency. With 20% chance for double damage (crit is not double), that makes it 120+.2*120 = 142 potency.

Blizzard 1 has 150 potency making Scathe the lowest potency spell in the THM class that does damage.

Yes - you have mobility with it and you can kite with it, but it's not something you want to cast if it can be helped.

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Sorry but your math is a bit off there, a 20% chance for a double damage proc does not calculate into potency. The 20% chance is a proc rate not a damage increase.

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Originally Posted by PuroStrider

lol @ complicated rotation (no nub)

Always spam scathe crew checking in...

brb godlike mobility with +20% Crit chance

Stack spell speed and you're golden

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What? Spell speed doesn't scale for crap, and the only time you spam scathe is when you are in an overcrowded fate and the adds are dropping within 1-2 secs..

How can you dumb down such a nice class into "spam scathe"..smh.

It is humorous in a way, but that kind of misinformation can lead to bad players, I am a lvl 40 BLM and I came to this thread for tips because I want to make sure I am doing things that will optimize my DPS.

Other people probably have come here for the same reason and to leave that alone and NOT correct it means you are risking some player coming in here and believing that that's how they should play..Troll or not you nip that stuff at the bud.

That's just my opinion..

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Originally Posted by BlackShroudMercs

It is humorous in a way, but that kind of misinformation can lead to bad players, I am a lvl 40 BLM and I came to this thread for tips because I want to make sure I am doing things that will optimize my DPS.

Other people probably have come here for the same reason and to leave that alone and NOT correct it means you are risking some player coming in here and believing that that's how they should play..Troll or not you nip that stuff at the bud.

That's just my opinion..

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I deleted my post cause you are correct.

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Originally Posted by AsheliaDalmasca

Sorry but your math is a bit off there, a 20% chance for a double damage proc does not calculate into potency. The 20% chance is a proc rate not a damage increase.

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What are you even talking about? The skill reads "20% chance potency will double." A 20% proc for double potency makes the spell have an effective base potency per cast over time of 144. In the same way, Fire's effective base potency per cast over time is 150 + .4*220 = 238 because of Firestarter procs (however, one mustn't forget to consider the extra GCDs consumed by Firestarter procs, which really gives Fire an effective base potency per GCD of 170).

In case anyone is not following the math, consider this:
On an average day, you cast Scathe 10 times. Since it's an average day, 2 of those casts will double their potency. That means you did 12 casts worth of potency (12 * 120) with 10 casts for an average potency per cast of 144.

Assuming your spell speed puts you at 2.4s cast/GCD, with 10 casts you're doing ((12*120) / (2.4s*10)) = 60 potency per second with Scathe.

On an average day, you cast Fire 10 times. Since it's an average day, 4 of those casts will proc Firestarter. Using those procs will give you an additional 880 potency on top of the 1500 from the 10 Fire spells. However, you actually had to use 4 more GCDs to cast the free Fire IIIs. That means you did 2380 potency with 14 GCD casts, which is 2380 / 14 = 170.

Assuming your spell speed puts you at 2.4s cast/GCD, with these 14 casts you're doing ((10*150 + 4*220) / (2.4s*14)) = 70.83 potency per second with Fire+Firestarter however this doesn't even take Astral Fire into account which is a huge boost in damage (AFIII is almost double damage IIRC?) that Scathe doesn't get.

[edit]
Obviously, your MP can't sustain casting 10 Fires in a row, so in reality you'd need to consider the dip in damage you'll get while spending a few seconds in UI3 to get your MP back, but even then, when compared to Scathe, this dip is far, far overshadowed by the damage bonus that AF3 gives to your Fire spells, plus those few "come up for air" seconds in UI3 are also your window to reapply your DoT whose damage we're not considering here, either.
[/edit]

tl;dr Scathe certainly has its uses (like when running around dodging titan's attacks or tagging mobs in FATEs or at the last boss of CM, for example) but spamming it when you don't have to move is bad DPS.

nobody speak about the MP tick clock, which is asynchronous, mastering the tick can greatly improve your dmg

thus TH3 is too long to cast, and you re delaying your fire phase, resulting in dps loss

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Originally Posted by OptimalZedd

nobody speak about the MP tick clock, which is asynchronous, mastering the tick can greatly improve your dmg

thus TH3 is too long to cast, and you re delaying your fire phase, resulting in dps loss

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Agreed.
Sync your casting rotation with the GCD along with mp tick to yeild the greatest Damage Optimization.
It's very hard to explain. But that's the key point.

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Originally Posted by Taszilla

So hi to all i saw a lots off threads about the rotation about the black mage but no a singel one about the stats.

I know you guys talking here about rotation but what you thinks are the best stats for a mage after int > hit ..... ?

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You want Critical Hit Rate as high as possible. Determination is okay, but you'll see much higher DPS by maxing out your Crit.

To answer an earlier question, the reason that you use Blizzard 3 rather than transpose is because the cost and casting time is greatly reduced when you have 3 AF stacks. The same thing goes for Fire 3 when you have 3 UI stacks. Transpose is really only used if you cut your mp too close and you don't have enough to cast Blizzard III while your AF stacks are active.

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Originally Posted by Umero

Agreed.
Sync your casting rotation with the GCD along with mp tick to yeild the greatest Damage Optimization.
It's very hard to explain. But that's the key point.

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It's also impossible, since the GCD is 2.3-2.5 seconds, and the ticks are 3. You can't "sync" them.

there is also no reason to synch them during your rotation
the only thing that can be "synched" with the mana-regen-tick is the switch from UI3 to AF3 - which is what most BLMs do by default after casting thunder1/2

that means you shouldn't *finish* Fire3 before the second UI3 tick and you shouldn't wait for the second UI3 tick to appear before you start casting it
and no, don't even try to simply transpose out of a flare cast without any procs available because you *think* you got the UI clock-tick right

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Originally Posted by PessimiStick

It's also impossible, since the GCD is 2.3-2.5 seconds, and the ticks are 3. You can't "sync" them.

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Well, I didn't mean that. I mean to "catch the flow"

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Originally Posted by RakaNishu

You want Critical Hit Rate as high as possible. Determination is okay, but you'll see much higher DPS by maxing out your Crit.

To answer an earlier question, the reason that you use Blizzard 3 rather than transpose is because the cost and casting time is greatly reduced when you have 3 AF stacks. The same thing goes for Fire 3 when you have 3 UI stacks. Transpose is really only used if you cut your mp too close and you don't have enough to cast Blizzard III while your AF stacks are active.

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Transpose is also good when your last cast of fire spell is fire3 from firestarter. Do a transpose right after it and then scathe/thundecloud, and fire 3 again.

Open with Thunder 2, Fire 3, Fire spam (unless firestarter proc), Blizzard, Thunder 2, Fire 3, Fire 3 (If you do these back to back you get to quick cast both of them, and the second fire 3 hits with full T3 damage).

You should never use Thunder 3 as it's only 1 DPS higher than Thunder 2, and cast locks you longer. Only apply thunder 3 off Thundercloud procs.

Biggest boost in your DPS will be utilizing the two quick cast Fire 3s after your blizzard.

When you go

Blizzard

Thunder 2

Fire 3 (mid cast fire 3, your mana tops off perfect timing).

Fire 3 (second smart cast)

Fire

(Firestarter on proc)

Blizzard

Repeat


Expierence? Several parses over 400 DPS in AK/WP. And Over 300 DPS in Coil.

Oh and AoE should be Fire 3 Fire 2 Fire 2 Fire 2 SwiftCast Flare Aetheral Swap (utilize the mana down time to drop in threat, because if your geared enough I've yet to have a tank hold threat through this). Repeat on mana top off.

do you even have enough mana for thunder 2 or even 1 if you cast 2x Fire3?
because I know I wouldn't

I cast my last fire1 with either ~1,1k or ~950 , depending on whether the *normal* manaregen kicks in or not

Typically yes, but there are times it's barely too low, just get it on the next tick of mana regen.

So as far as FLARE into rotation goes. Is it possible?/has anyone tried? to double dip a flare into a blizz 3 tick? with UI3 up you will get a fast cast on flare making it so the flare hits then the UI3 ticks after wards will be the trick. after doing so i guess you can swiftcast flare for the remaining MP with AF3 up. umm kinda confusing and this is really speculation. i'm not entirely sure if this will be a good dps boost or not but.. here:

finished regular fire rotation and you have something below 1k mp > cast blizz 3 and spam flare > flare goes off while in UI3 > double dip happens > you come out with some MP and AF3 > Swiftcast Flare > convert > back to regular rotation.

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Originally Posted by KrayZee

do you even have enough mana for thunder 2 or even 1 if you cast 2x Fire3?
because I know I wouldn't

I cast my last fire1 with either ~1,1k or ~950 , depending on whether the *normal* manaregen kicks in or not

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The way I've been playing it is once my mana hits 1673 or less, only cast one more Fire I, then go into Umbral. It costs 1674 mana for two Fires, B3, and T2, so if you see 1673 or less, you can only afford 1 Fire.

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Originally Posted by AsheliaDalmasca

Yes I am aware the rotation is pretty straightfoward, but There are a couple of things you can do to min/max your dps!

BLM Dps Guide: http://youtu.be/MucprW2kUTE

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I would remove this link. The guide starts off by saying that you should Start Thunder 3 into a Fire 1 spam...>.> that's real bad. heh. It will confuse beginners into thinking this is a good idea : )

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Originally Posted by Techro

finished regular fire rotation and you have something below 1k mp > cast blizz 3 and spam flare > flare goes off while in UI3 > double dip happens > you come out with some MP and AF3 > Swiftcast Flare > convert > back to regular rotation.

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My style is: I hold on to any thundercloud or any firestarter(if they trigger while mp is about half full or less) during regular fire rotation. I would do either a swiftcast flare or a firestarter's fire3 and then quickly transpose and thundercloud, by tthen you should gain a tick and so you can start casting a fire3 and as your fire3 lands, you would gain another tick and be nearly full mp again back to regular fire rotation.

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Originally Posted by Umero

My style is: I hold on to any thundercloud or any firestarter(if they trigger while mp is about half full or less) during regular fire rotation. I would do either a swiftcast flare or a firestarter's fire3 and then quickly transpose and thundercloud, by tthen you should gain a tick and so you can start casting a fire3 and as your fire3 lands, you would gain another tick and be nearly full mp again back to regular fire rotation.

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This style is not efficient at all. However, do what you want but I seriously advice you fire all your procs asap without interrupting anything or saving them. I have personally recoded many cases where I would get double thundercloud or double fire 3 procs in row. There is also the reason where you can follow fire 1 by fire 3 proc at the same exact time resulting in a very good amount of dmg.

Here is a video in T4 with a bunch of friends (this is not my regular Coil group). Notice how I "Sparda" don't save any proc and always fire my procs asap and usually don't start fire rotation without full mana, I'm also controlling my hate using QS and Thunder 3. I did 25k~ more than the second place and I was not as geared as I'm now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DYclUlt4yo

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

This style is not effic...

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if I throw in thundercloud or firestarter in the middle of my fire rotation, it'll be a 5 second delay for the next regular fire spell. It's not bad to use it if my first fire procs firestarter but once i have only about half of my max mp or so... I don't think it's worth to fire it as soon as I get it... besides, I don't wait to see if fire3 proc every time my fire spell lands, I hit fire again before my fire spell lands. And yes, I could see some firestarter proc more than once. but I don't think it's worth to just throw in a firestarter and wait for gcd and then wait for the next regular fire casting time. Instead, save the firestarter and thundercloud, throw firestarter in at the end when I'm out of mp, quickly transpose, and then thundercloud and fire3 again. that seems to work just as fine as blizzard 3. and of course I can mix and match with swiftcast flare and convert and stuff in when facing dps check phases.

I guess I'm more toward consistent damage than aiming for higher random luck.

http://ffxivrealm.com/threads/black-...sion-wip.6900/

Just going to leave this here....

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Originally Posted by Umero

if I throw in thundercloud or firestarter in the middle of my fire rotation, it'll be a 5 second delay for the next regular fire spell. It's not bad to use it if my first fire procs firestarter but once i have only about half of my max mp or so... I don't think it's worth to fire it as soon as I get it... besides, I don't wait to see if fire3 proc every time my fire spell lands, I hit fire again before my fire spell lands. And yes, I could see some firestarter proc more than once. but I don't think it's worth to just throw in a firestarter and wait for gcd and then wait for the next regular fire casting time. Instead, save the firestarter and thundercloud, throw firestarter in at the end when I'm out of mp, quickly transpose, and then thundercloud and fire3 again. that seems to work just as fine as blizzard 3. and of course I can mix and match with swiftcast flare and convert and stuff in when facing dps check phases.

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You can "think" whatever you want, but you're objectively wrong, and doing less damage than you should be.

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Originally Posted by Umero

if I throw in thundercloud or firestarter in the middle of my fire rotation, it'll be a 5 second delay for the next regular fire spell. It's not bad to use it if my first fire procs firestarter but once i have only about half of my max mp or so... I don't think it's worth to fire it as soon as I get it... besides, I don't wait to see if fire3 proc every time my fire spell lands, I hit fire again before my fire spell lands. And yes, I could see some firestarter proc more than once. but I don't think it's worth to just throw in a firestarter and wait for gcd and then wait for the next regular fire casting time. Instead, save the firestarter and thundercloud, throw firestarter in at the end when I'm out of mp, quickly transpose, and then thundercloud and fire3 again. that seems to work just as fine as blizzard 3. and of course I can mix and match with swiftcast flare and convert and stuff in when facing dps check phases.

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You are a bit off here.

UI1 gives me 1160 mana out of a 3629 pool. Things like mana regen ticks and DoTs are tied to the server's internal clock. Every three seconds it "ticks" and all dots on that server, and all mana regen, will tick at once. You can get the mana the instant Umbral Ice 1 is applied or 2.99~ seconds after it is applied. What this means is you are nearly always wasting time sitting there waiting for mana. The only time you won't waste casting time is if you A) Have TC and Firestarter procs and B) Server mana regen ticks the moment after Umbral Ice 1 is applied. You are also losing a tremendous amount of Fire III casts when you are in AF3 which is a huge DPS loss.

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Originally Posted by gigarit

http://ffxivrealm.com/threads/black-...sion-wip.6900/

Just going to leave this here....

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Stopped reading at "Sleep is the best CC in the game". Anything that does not work in Coil is bad pure and simple. I mean for god sake if we rate any job skills/spells based on AK/WP then IMHO we are doing it wrong.

Please SE for the love of everything that is right in this world make it so we can accurately parse data, and make it so people can actually figure out the correct damage formulas because of this thread right here. You know people are like, "BLM is the easiest class to play in the game, cause you only use 4 buttons". Tell that to all the people in this thread who are doing things very differently from one another. At this point I would rather have something like a DRG because you just memorize the 27 button cycle... there is no crazy debate over the order, it is pretty clear that was the intended rotation. BLM? Not so much... I have ran with a number of BLM all similarly geared to me, and yet we are always parsing vastly different numbers (varying anywhere from 10dps to far, far greater gaps). I get the feeling that the differences is rotations from how I play to how they play is a key part of this, because it is always the same disparity. I have yet to run with a BLM that did better than me on the parsers to the point where I would WANT to stop and ask them what they are doing for a rotation. This is very frustraiting to me, because I am not convinced that I am doing the best rotation possible, but I have yet to go head to head with someone else and lose...

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

Stopped reading at "Sleep is the best CC in the game". Anything that does not work in Coil is bad pure and simple. I mean for god sake if we rate any job skills/spells based on AK/WP then IMHO we are doing it wrong.

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But it is the best CC in the game. Just because no CC works in coil doesn't mean that it isn't the best CC in the game. Is it terrible that they gave us such an awesome spell that is completely worthless in the Coil? Yes. But that doesn't make the spell bad... That makes their game design bad to not make it useful in that location.

The other major killer on your numbers being vastly different from someone else comes down to execution as well. Since everyone can relate to it, I point out the demon wall (but this applies to everything), you know exactly how the fight is going to go down, so maximizing your DPS becomes more than just figuring out the "best rotation". It comes down to knowing the perfecting timing to have the least amount of downtime possible, while maintaining that rotation. You should be timing your movements to be a quick sidestep inbetween casts. If done correctly you will only ever have at most a .5 second downtime until the knockbacks, and not be interrupting any of your spells. Do it wrong and you are interrupting all your spells, getting stuck in weird casting cycles, and it is a significant DPS difference.

Even for Titan, I figured out the best places to stand/move to/etc for the fight to avoid as much significant downtime as possible. For example you know what bomb pattern is coming up next, so preemptively getting over to "safe zones" before the bombs even show up when it is convenient to move is going to considerably help your numbers. Use the forced downtimes of running out of plumes or landslides to also get into position for other things. If you have to interrupt your cast, make the most out of that movement so you don't have to move again for a bit.

Turn 1 Boss (cadeious... sp?), first try to beg and plead for your group NOT to make you spawn adds... I really think any other class is at a less disadvantage than us, even SMN. First, getting casts interrupted because you are getting smacked in the face is very frustrating. Second you have to quickly kite over to the boss, but not too quickly or the add will explode... making it a stutter step that pretty much just kills you really being able to cast anything significant. Making tail swipes spawn I am fine with... putting me on the add... I will cry inside, every time. And if you are trying to scathe it down, it will take you like 6 or 7 hits (never really counted, just seems like that is about the right number). By that time, the boss will already have another stack, and you will be looking to spawn another add.

Anyway, positioning here has a lot to do with maintaining uptime on the boss. I usually try to time big movements (like switching bosses in the split phase) to be in sync with a proc, so I finish say a Fire spell, start moving toward my new position, hit Fire 3, and then finish getting there just in time to start casting again. For jumping on and off platforms again, it is similar to the demon wall. You know about when to expect it. Try to time things so you are inbetween casts and are only losing .5 seconds at the most in movement.

I could go on, but hopefully those three fights give some ideas on how to think about the fights so you can maximize your DPS on each pull. No class is as affected by fight mechanics right now as we are, IMO, so the difference between being ok, and being amazing is going to come from knowing the fight through and through, and then minimizing downtime. It could be that building up AF stacks with Fire spells instead of a single cast Fire 3 is better, it could be that transpose is better than Bliz 3, it could be that thunder 3 is better to cast than thunder 2... but none of those minor picky debates really matter if you are never casting anything because you are out of position and moving around all the time.

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Originally Posted by Thyrllan

You are a bit off here.
....
A) Have TC and Firestarter procs and B) Server mana regen ticks the moment after Umbral Ice 1 is applied. You are also losing a tremendous amount of Fire III casts when you are in AF3 which is a huge DPS loss.

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I only... "ONLY" do transpose when my thundercloud and firestarter/swiftcast are up. I guess there are misunderstandings between my words I posted earlier.
And even I lose "tremendous amount of fire 3 casts" I make up the damage loss by a consistent fire spam during regular fire rotation. Firestarter proc is stupid unless you have to move around and dodge stuff, otherwise just hit the Fire button right before your current Fire spell lands.

Without thundercloud and firestarter, it's obvious to just throw in Blizzard 3 twice or Blizzard 3, blizzard then double Fire 3 and fire again for the greatest optimization

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Originally Posted by Umero

I make up the damage loss by a consistent fire spam during regular fire rotation.

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Uh, no you don't. That's impossible, actually, as Fire 3 hits ~47% harder than Fire 1. Not using Firestarter as soon as you get it just makes you a shitty player, sorry.

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Originally Posted by PessimiStick

Uh, no you don't. That's impossible, actually, as Fire 3 hits ~47% harder than Fire 1. Not using Firestarter as soon as you get it just makes you a shitty player, sorry.

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lol, no need to sorry. A 47% loss compare to 1 single fire 1 than the time it takes to cast 2.5 fire spells instead of one fire and one fire starter. I guess not many ppl know how the math works here.

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Originally Posted by Umero

lol, no need to sorry. A 47% loss compare to 1 single fire 1 than the time it takes to cast 2.5 fire spells instead of one fire and one fire starter. I guess not many ppl know how the math works here.

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Well there's certainly one person here that doesn't know how the math works.

Hint: It's you.

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Originally Posted by PessimiStick

Well there's certainly one person here that doesn't know how the math works.

Hint: It's you.

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Fire, Fire 3(firestarter) then wait for GCD,, and then cast fire (now wait for casting time for the fire to land)
Fire, Fire, Fire(half way before the spell fires off).

You wanna bet which one execute faster?

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Originally Posted by Umero

Fire, Fire 3(firestarter) then wait for GCD,, and then cast fire (now wait for casting time for the fire to land)
Fire, Fire, Fire(half way before the spell fires off).

You wanna bet which one execute faster?

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You did 450 base potency.
I did 520 base potency.

We both used 3 GCDs.

You tell me who won?

Hint: Not you.

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Originally Posted by PessimiStick

You did 450 base potency.
I did 520 base potency.

We both used 3 GCDs.

You tell me who won?

Hint: Not you.

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3 GCDs? Did you see your 2nd GCD is longer due to Firestarter has GCD but you aren't casting anyway spell inbetween the GCD?