Something needs to be done about tanks ruining the dungeon queue

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Originally Posted by Nialle

They should really make Blacklists cross server, and have it so that person is also never matched with you in the DF queue. That would add more accountability, for sure.

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One thing WoW did right. /ignore was cross server and affected instance finder group matchmaking.

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Originally Posted by Geographer

This is mostly relevant to the title, rather than the OP's experiences:

I've come across tanks who take their near-instant queues for granted and proceed to troll people by purposely joining and withdrawing from queue over and over again. I would really love a limit to how many times you can join/withdraw within a certain period of time.

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Yep. Queued for an hour for story Garuda. Tank makes a smiley emote then leaves. Leaving us all trapped in the barrier. I was raging.

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Originally Posted by AlexisLed

You are right here, but i think Se before fix miqo'te lower parts or other minor things need to make another tank class or better adjust or make a life easier to a war tank. Look i use to tank in other games but i don t like pally class here, instead i like war but you know check on tank roles why i gave up on it..So i rerolled as dps instead..and i am not the only 1 i guess

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This is a class specific issue though. Warrior tanks are pretty not-great right now, and I (and several others) agree that they need some quality of life changes to put them on par with Paladin tanks, but this is sort of the wrong thread for that discussion.

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Originally Posted by Balaur

The solutiuon to tank jackholes is, apparently, being one yourself. Perfect solution! When everyone is a tank, then ... uhm ... what's next?

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So what are you suggesting then? Square Enix can't make tanks play nice or play the way you want them to. It's unfeasible for them to ban "mean players" when they already have their hands full dealing with cheating and scamming. Instead of crying about it, how about you do something to fix the problems you face. I used to run into rude or unskilled healers. Then I made one, and now I both love healing and don't run into that problem nearly as much.

And while we're on the subject of rude and troll tanks, I don't run into them that much. Maybe once or twice since I've begun, and I almost exclusively use the DF for all content that isn't Titan HM and beyond. What I run into more are pissy dps players who get upset when tanks, healers, or other dps are new to fights and need things explained to them. Believe me, ridiculous damage dealers are way more common and more frequent than troll tanks or even troll healers. They just also happen to not be important to most runs whatsoever.

better play with a tank from your FC/LS so they won't leave.

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Originally Posted by Lollerblades

Hopefully a vote to kick feature will be implemented soon.

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A kick feature would have nothing to do with the situation above. Did you read it? In that scenario the tank grabs the chest and leaves. There is no one to kick.

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Originally Posted by ErikMynhier

A kick feature would have nothing to do with the situation above. Did you read it? In that scenario the tank grabs the chest and leaves. There is no one to kick.

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I believe that was his sarcastic commentary on the fact that many want a vote to kick feature to solve all the player behavior problems, while showing that here's one problem that the feature is powerless to help with.

Well, there's not much I can do personally other than give you my word that I either finish the dungeon or I'm one of the last people to leave (my main class is a tank). I may never see the people again and it's impossible for them to talk to me unless we're on the same world, but I know I sure wouldn't want a tank/healer to be rude or suddenly leave, especially when it takes so long to find one. Generally speaking, we're all playing the same game; no need to complicate it for each other. :)

When FFXIV was released, it seemed to me like there was a real shortage of Healers. I was happy to already be lvl.50 WHM. Queues were instanteneous! Now there's plenty of healers and a real shortage of tanks.

I have since taken up the sword & shield and even the 2-handed axe.
Queues... Instantaneous... LOVIN' IT.

I don'T understand why there aren'T more tanks, it'S a really fun class, paladin or warrior. Not to mention you are usually greeted as great champion/hero/celebrity* when you join. It's a great class if you enjoy leadership roles. And maybe this is why there aren'T many tanks considering there can be alot of pressure as a new tank.

-You gotta memorize the map
-Prioritize/Mark the right mobs (When applicable)
-Explain Sub and Main Boss tactics
-Be generally gallant exercising patience


I rarelly have any trouble having talented DPS or Healer**


I don'T know if this is factual or not but, whenever I use the duty*** finder, I always tick "Join Instance in progress" and I click all four language options. I think it does help giving you more chances to join an instance.

I wish there was a way help people of my server only if I choose with the DF. It would help make lasting relationship or create bitter rivalries... Either would do.





*Minus the DUIs
**Kindly Remind a guy called One Way that Cleric Stance in no way improves healing
***Duty means poop

Wow that is good idea OP. Thanks for info, will roll a tank and make some profit.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You could always pull the 'evil' route and merely write down their name, and tell all your friends and Free Company not to party with this person for this reason.

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wont work, as there could be someone with that same name on another server, not fair to them.

I rolled a healer because of instant queues. Now that it is 50 I'm doing a warrior tank (i know it sucks but w/e) just for that instant queue goodness. I'm trying to level only with dungeon runs, and a bit of fates springled here and there.

Roll a tank, it's fun and you'll be part of the solution and not the problem

Look at it this way. If there were an overabundance of tanks/healers, we would be the ones complaining about DPS doing this.
Solution: All chests removed from bosses before the final boss, and all chests that would've dropped from those bosses now drop at the final boss. 4-5 pieces of loot for rolling when the dungeon is cleared.

Best solution (IMO) is to enact a debuff that prevents a person from joining queue/DF/dungeons for X amount of minutes if they leave the group early/before the dungeon is finished.

Only thing to do is become the "fist of goodness" and teach them a lesson, but dont drop in during a dinner party while jumping on roof tops

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Originally Posted by Ryios

There is an easy solution to that now,

Don't pass or roll on the gear, let it expire. The tank rolled need if it dropped, just move on and don't click on the loot window they'll be like (Roll please) and just keep going, they have three options here, 1: continue, 2: Stand afk and wait on it, 3: leave and get nothing

They should pause the loot timer until the dungeon is over or everyone clicks need/greed/pass.

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good idea, yes please

Trust me, you don't want me as a tank. A healer maybe...But a tank? Nope. You'd wipe so much you'll start pulling out hairs just for the comfort of knowing your still alive behind that character. x_x;

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Originally Posted by Charmy

Trust me, you don't want me as a tank. A healer maybe...But a tank? Nope. You'd wipe so much you'll start pulling out hairs just for the comfort of knowing your still alive behind that character. x_x;

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Could've swore archer/bard was a tank judging by some of my earlier dungeon runs.:rolleyes:

As a DPS, you should know what Duty Finder entails: 20+ minute queues. If you don't want to wait, make some tank or healer friends. If you don't want to risk it, form a party on your server or pay a high level 50 to come with you for the run. As long as those chests contain valuable items while the run awards no bonus whatsoever, people will be coming in, looting your chests and then leaving. It just so happens to be tanks/healers that do this the most, but any class is capable of this. Again, make some friends instead of blaming the DF. DF = random members with no loyalties whatsoever. Accept this and move on.

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Originally Posted by Shyle

Best solution (IMO) is to enact a debuff that prevents a person from joining queue/DF/dungeons for X amount of minutes if they leave the group early/before the dungeon is finished.

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There is a 15 min one. But... perhaps it would be an idea if it would accrue 'points', like say, if you leave within the first 10 mins of a dungeon so many times in an hour, you get a longer 'debuff'.
Off topic, anyone else ever be the first to leave a dungeon later on with not much time left and not get the 15 min timeout? I did once when I knew we weren't going to beat the last boss in AK (sorry again, guys I ditched, but 8 wipes and a wasted lb is positively frustrating, esp when you're rolling in full DL and ifrit weps)

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Originally Posted by Lollerblades

Hopefully a vote to kick feature will be implemented soon.

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vote kick won't work unless you have psychic powers and know these tanks will leave after opening x chests >_>

but yes we do need vote kick anyway due to some players mistreating others like they are complete garbage

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Originally Posted by Xunin

For the third time in 4 hours (on a 30-45min queue, mind you) I've been having tanks that ruin the dungeon experience completely by simply running for the nearest 2-3 chests and then simply leaving, forcing the others to requeue. As a DPS this is game breaking due to the fact that queues are very long to begin with.

Any word from SE of this? Or is the the good ol' "wall of silence" / "working as intended" as usual?

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Hem… these is not a game problem, it’s a lack of tanks (to many DPs in this game: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/000506.html ) also leaving a dungeon grant you a 15 minutes penalty so you can simple join immediately to another quest, precisely to avoid this kind of behavior

Relying on duty finder to complete dungeons is your mistake. Make a linkshell or a free company, gather a few friends and do the content you want. It's not difficult at all.

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Originally Posted by Xunin

For the third time in 4 hours (on a 30-45min queue, mind you) I've been having tanks that ruin the dungeon experience completely by simply running for the nearest 2-3 chests and then simply leaving

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Only one MMO has ever put in something similar to the solution I've been suggesting since about 2006 for this issue - which is an issue seen in almost every MMO, even GW2 which doesn't have tanks...

Put all rewards at the end, upon "mission completion" - even though you have to earn them throughout.

So you loot all those chests, get all that XP, get all that Gil... and it doesn't get handed to your character until you have that 'exit' thing at the end of the dungeon...

City of Heroes had something similar... Mission Completion. There was no completion until there was a completion... and all you could get there was very small XP and trivial recipe items - mostly items good to give to updating your guild base, and not yourself... until 'Completion' popped up on your screen.

Completion there though also meant 100% full clear. Not sure if modern MMOs would go for that.

BUT... its pretty easy to say "nothing from a chest, and none of the XP counts, for ANYONE, until the dungeon finish pops."

- With an added caveat: if a vote-kick system is added, all loot earned before the kick happens is lost. Either A: everyone loses everything they earned (what I favor, because it makes you only kick when you MUST kick), or B: the loot the kicked person won goes to no-one - not even them (which ends up being griefer-friendly).

(City of Heroes didn't need a solution for this, it had no kick function, its community never got bad to begin with because you could see everyone's global name, and they allowed people to name and shame on their forums for the first several years... before they sold the game to another company... so reputations were taken seriously: even if you server transferred, people only had to look up your global name and see what rep you'd left behind on your old server.)


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ALT SOLUTION:

1. Leaving a dungeon incurs a 2-hour wait penalty, minus 15 minutes per boss that was cleared in the dungeon you left. But only if the dungeon had been started (at least one combat was entered into).

2. A group missing a member goes above new groups in the wait queue, waiting in a queue of partial groups. And people get the option to switch their gearsets and re-pick roles (as that could speed things up).

3. Probably too complex to code: anytime multiple partial groups waiting in queue have killed the same bosses, they will be given the option to merge, and with it, the option for each member to re-pick their role / change gearset - if so doing can build a new full group.

(so lets say I came to dungeon X as heals, and we lost our tank, I would get the option to switch to tank, and we'd get the option to merge with another group that had lost a DPS and its tank).

What about leechers? A couple hours ago I had this little person standing in CM entrance, the whole run, he was a tank (fyi) when we finished the last boss he just left the instance, he was there the whole time. This person deserves a ban, won't call names but I am indeed reporting him uploading a video as proof at the moment to send it to SE.

Leechers, afkers and rage quitters, i hate all those people.

The way WoW handles this very behavior is by putting the remaining group at the top of the queue for a new tank. Usually it won't take more than a few minutes to get one. This is not an unsolvable issue.

What I don't understand is why we have a ratio of 2 dps per tank in the dungeon group makeup. Surely SE knew there was going to be a tank shortage, there always is. To me it seems obvious to go with a traditional 3 to 1 ratio or even a 4 to 1 ratio.

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Originally Posted by Auron_Wolf

Hem… these is not a game problem, it’s a lack of tanks (to many DPs in this game: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/000506.html ) also leaving a dungeon grant you a 15 minutes penalty so you can simple join immediately to another quest, precisely to avoid this kind of behavior

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That's not entirely true. By and large people love their big numbers and prefer to play DPS classes rather than the healer and support roles. But there's also a problem with the game here in that there's no reason right now to run a dungeon besides the loot. The gil is so laughably bad (at least through what I've done so far) that it's kind of an insult to even give those stacks of tin ,etc, and the experience is decent but way worse than fate grinding. If they gave you a good chunk of xp and gil (comparable to FATES but maybe a little less) based on completion of a dungeon people would have an incentive to play them.

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Originally Posted by Xunin

For the third time in 4 hours (on a 30-45min queue, mind you) I've been having tanks that ruin the dungeon experience completely by simply running for the nearest 2-3 chests and then simply leaving, forcing the others to requeue. As a DPS this is game breaking due to the fact that queues are very long to begin with.

Any word from SE of this? Or is the the good ol' "wall of silence" / "working as intended" as usual?

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I've never seen this since...well, i'm a tank, I feel for you guys though, that sounds especially toxic behavior, IDK if there is a lack of tanks, anyone who does this, needs to be perm banned.

shame to be in a party that gets moved up in queue as their old tank left just to get a new dickhead that do the same Again :P

duty finders fault to begin with, if it was not there ppl that do this thing would never get a party to start with unless he is with 3 of his friends.

so lets removed the pest of all MMOs the dungoen finder PLEASE.

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Originally Posted by Kyriea

There's no fix for it unfortunately

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Sure there is. Don't put any chests before the first boss of a dungeon. There, fixed. Why nobody thought of this during development, I have no idea.

MVP feature soon OP :). I'm pretty sure you can only vote up and cannot downvote, so less chances people have to abuse and harass others with it.

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Originally Posted by traja

The way WoW handles this very behavior is by putting the remaining group at the top of the queue for a new tank. Usually it won't take more than a few minutes to get one. This is not an unsolvable issue.

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One of the reasons it's so successful there though is that you don't have a choice in whether you get a fresh run or a partial. You get what it gives you, and you deal with it.

Here, most tanks seem to opt out of partial runs, since their queues will be instant anyway. The end result being that a tank leaving is pretty much a death sentence for the party since the chance at getting another tank is slim to none.

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Originally Posted by traja

The way WoW handles this very behavior is by putting the remaining group at the top of the queue for a new tank. Usually it won't take more than a few minutes to get one. This is not an unsolvable issue.

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Not a fan of that solution:
- If I'm using dungeon to level (items on the side, so it's not unrealistic), I want to fight all of the trash. NOT part done.
- If it's like healer/tank gone and 2 DPS remain, I don't want to join the group only to wait on the other to join.
- If the partial group is bad and I just finished leaving them seconds ago, I don't want put back in that group.

And in case any of the above happens, what's to prevent me from simply leaving and trying again a minute later? Maybe a mechanism to stop that, but wouldn't want to be too horribly draconian with it.

A better thing to do, in my opinion, would just be to make "Join Party in Progress" default on (currently is default off). A lot of people simply don't think to check it. And people who actively don't want it can uncheck of course. That way at least a bit better of chance of re-filling a group. Group without a tank may as well just break up currently -- replacement possible, but extremely unlikely.

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Originally Posted by RhazeCain

Not a fan of that solution:
- If I'm using dungeon to level (items on the side, so it's not unrealistic), I want to fight all of the trash. NOT part done.
- If it's like healer/tank gone and 2 DPS remain, I don't want to join the group only to wait on the other to join.
- If the partial group is bad and I just finished leaving them seconds ago, I don't want put back in that group.

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- As a tank you get pretty much instant queues so for leveling purposes it doesn't matter as you can just immediately rejoin another dungeon once the partial one is finished.
- It does not add you to groups that are waiting, only groups that are ready to continue. So in your example the healer spot is filled first (usually), they all then wait for a tank and only once one is found is the healer even notified about the group. Both tank and healer get teleported to the dungeon simultaneously.
- If you leave you get a deserter debuff and won't be put back in the same group.

A simple deterrent to this kind of action could be simply a cumulative lockout time if someone were to exit (similar to the current 15 mins) however have the lockout increase the more times you do it... ie. 15 mins for first leave, 60 mins for next, 24 hrs for 3rd...

As a tank my queues were so fast that I didn't notice there was an option to join dungeons in progress until I reached level 50. DPS know about those options because they've had lots of time to stare at the queue UI. :)

Also I agree that because you get fewer rewards for doing an in progress dungeons (some bosses [and their loot] may already be gone, less xp from trash if you're leveling), tanks/healers prefer full runs, while dps take whatever they can get.

Maybe the checkbox for in progress should be removed (everyone joins in progress) and if you join in progress, you get an extra drop just for you if you complete the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Punish people harshly like with temp bans if reported for ditching groups.)

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.... Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight? Are you serious? you get lock out thats your temp ban right there, anything else would be quite excessive. We are human beans who often have busy lives and for what ever reason can't finish a dungeon or what ever we are doing and need to ditch to go do more important things.

Sigh, just re que and get over it? Or go with your FC who you know are capable and can win?
At least you don't get lock out, but I can understand the frustration of needing to wait for re-que.
The best thing people can do if people leave an instance is remain in the instance and simply seek a replacement.
THIS IS POSSIBLE TO DO!

You don't need to wait in a massive que again with that method.

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Also to the OP if you don't like tanks getting fast ques coz your jealous maybe level a tank?
It's like this in every game, tanks and healers always get faster ques because most people role DPS.
The fact most people role DPS is the cause because there is a longer que to get in.

Simply wanting this to change because you can't handle it won't change a thing.

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I think one solution to this is to possibly increase the amount of instances that can be proccessed so more people can do the instance simultaneously, I see this probably causing worse delays in server timing, lag and all that jaz.

People have a HUUUGE problem with that too so yeah massive conflict of interest there.

How is reading comprehension?

I'm not complaining that tanks get insta-queues (Though I will add that SE could have taken countermeasures to balance this out but thats a different discussion).
I'm complaining that (partially because of it), it makes it possible for tanks to enter WP, open the closest 2 chests and just go "FU team". It's clearly abuse of the system and if you're too dumb to admit it then I guess yeah let the DF be broken.
The most simple solution is to move these chests to a position in which they cant be bum rushed, though several other suggestions in this thread could work too.

As for "join a FC or play a tank yourself"; it isn't a solution, it's circumventing the issue entirely, making it nothing less than troll posts.

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Originally Posted by Xunin

For the third time in 4 hours (on a 30-45min queue, mind you) I've been having tanks that ruin the dungeon experience completely by simply running for the nearest 2-3 chests and then simply leaving, forcing the others to requeue. As a DPS this is game breaking due to the fact that queues are very long to begin with.

Any word from SE of this? Or is the the good ol' "wall of silence" / "working as intended" as usual?

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It's called griefing, and it should be reportable.

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Originally Posted by Vandark

.... Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight? Are you serious? you get lock out thats your temp ban right there, anything else would be quite excessive. We are human beans who often have busy lives and for what ever reason can't finish a dungeon or what ever we are doing and need to ditch to go do more important things.

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Do you even know what is being discussed? This isn't about people who need to leave for offline stuff. This is about tanks who rush to the chests, then quit. and since they can generally get into dungeons faster, they can do it all day.

You said it yourself, it's a lockout. A slap on the wrist for wasting others' time. It's griefing. Temp ban those tools.

Clearly the best fix is to make the chests in a harder to get to place.