Please give Paladin access to Pugilist skill tree instead of Conjurer.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Not necessarily. Utility doesn't always have to be available in combat. Having access to Raise means you can help your group recover after a wipe or get someone back up that may have died during a fight. As I said, it's pretty clear why curing is as nerfed as it is.

Again, the FF Paladin has always been about weak white magic. We have weak white magic and a pretty damn good tanking model to boot, so we're actually quite fine.

PS: I don't understand why it's such a big deal that Raise can't be cast in combat. It's a way to prevent zombie tactics and a lot of the nonsense that was caused by them in FFXI. Hell, when I heard CNJ could cast in combat Raises through a trait, I panicked because in a modern MMO barring limited opportunities to cast (Death Knights and Druids in WoW had in-combat rez but on a long cooldown to prevent it being used more than once per fight), it's OP as hell and can break/trivialize encounters.

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A "wipe" usually means everybody died including yourself, and everyone would have to use Return. Meanwhile, while Raise is an extremely situational tool outside of combat, and completely unusable in combat, other jobs are enjoying essential cross-class skills that enhance their role in almost every situation. As it stands right now, none of the Conjurer skills enhance a Paladin, which is a big handicap in comparison to other jobs.

Paladin is a tank with the ability to support and heal the party, as it always was. Paladin can literally just stand there and constantly cure itself if it wants, keeping its health up and constantly generating enmity. Although its magic is weak, it's still enough to cause a difference in a rough battle. A single cure from a paladin can help a healer out or save itself from death.

Pugilist doesn't make any sense to me for paladin and goes against the whole point of what a paladin is about.

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Originally Posted by Eldarion18

I'm sorry, but at level 50 you would need 20~ cures to heal yourself to full, but you only have mp for 10 cures max. And at 2.5 secs per cast you need close to a whole minute to heal yourself to full while not getting hit. Not to mention that level 50 bosses hit for way more than the 250~ hp. Even in dungeons as low as Brayflox, bosses hit harder than you can cure, let alone in actual end-game content.

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Why would you need to heal yourself to full? You have a healer for that. Paladin is supplemental healing. I did some testing with Cure already on PLD and it worked fine for me so far. Second Wind has a cooldown, you can heal far more with Cure by the time it comes off cooldown. Paladin heals are for an emergency and to supplement the main healer. Warrior and pugilist cannot do that.

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Originally Posted by Eldarion18

A "wipe" usually means everybody died including yourself, and everyone would have to use Return.

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Indeed. But that also tends to mean the healer runs back into the instance/uses Return and starts raising people while the raid leader works out the plan for the next attempt. When that happens I usually offer to help raise people, which cuts down on recovery time in a large raid (I was a ret paladin in WoW, which means my role was DPS yet I had weak heals and a rez that went generally unused outside of certain procs and is also why XIV's approach to PLD makes sense to me).

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Meanwhile, while Raise is an extremely situational tool outside of combat, and completely unusable in combat, other jobs are enjoying essential cross-class skills that enhance their role in almost every situation. As it stands right now, none of the Conjurer skills enhance a Paladin, which is a big handicap in comparison to other jobs.

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I'm not sure what we would be missing out. We have Bloodbath, Foresight and Fracture from MRD to help the tanking game (though again, our tanking model is pretty good on its own). CNJ simply gives us utility.

agree 100% or make cure a very viable paladin skill. I think pld should cure itself.

In a sense though if you made Paladin sub Pug skills wouldn't that change paladin all together and make it another class? Like if you took away paladin's heals and gave them eva and heavy hits ect.. Wouldn't that make them more like a class nick named Fighter?

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Paladin is a tank with the ability to support and heal the party, as it always was. Paladin can literally just stand there and constantly cure itself if it wants, keeping its health up and constantly generating enmity. Although its magic is weak, it's still enough to cause a difference in a rough battle. A single cure from a paladin can help a healer out or save itself from death.

Pugilist doesn't make any sense to me for paladin and goes against the whole point of what a paladin is about.

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I'm sorry, but at level 50 you would need 20~ cures to heal yourself to full, but you only have mp for 10 cures max. And at 2.5 secs per cast you need close to a whole minute to heal yourself to full while not getting hit. Not to mention that level 50 bosses hit for way more than the 250~ hp. Even in dungeons as low as Brayflox, bosses hit harder than you can cure, let alone in actual end-game content.

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Originally Posted by Eldarion18

A "wipe" usually means everybody died including yourself, and everyone would have to use Return. Meanwhile, while Raise is an extremely situational tool outside of combat, and completely unusable in combat, other jobs are enjoying essential cross-class skills that enhance their role in almost every situation. As it stands right now, none of the Conjurer skills enhance a Paladin, which is a big handicap in comparison to other jobs.

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It does? Pugilist have marauder as second class, meaning it's as much useful :| the best i can take it's bloodbath and mercy stroke, at best fracture too. But before was even worst: i had gladiator as second class, with only convalescence as useful ability :| almost all mnk cross-class abilities come from lancer

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Originally Posted by Eldarion18

I'm sorry, but at level 50 you would need 20~ cures to heal yourself to full, but you only have mp for 10 cures max. And at 2.5 secs per cast you need close to a whole minute to heal yourself to full while not getting hit. Not to mention that level 50 bosses hit for way more than the 250~ hp. Even in dungeons as low as Brayflox, bosses hit harder than you can cure, let alone in actual end-game content.

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That actually makes a good point about not being able to heal yourself fully with MP and everything. I can see your problem you are having in regards to healing and tanking. In 11 I remember if you were paladin you had your own separate heals though they gave you heal 2 and higher. Probably the best they should do is lower the cost to cast heal as a paladin or raise paladin's MP let alone they should increase the heal amount for paladin then or give them Cure 2. God when are they gonna change it from Cure 1 to Cure then change Cure 2 to Cura!

Well I'll offer a bit of advice that you can use both in the subject of this topic and in life in general.
"Before complaining about things you do not have it is often best to take a full inventory of the things you do." Often you'll find that what you think is missing is not really that big of an issue in the bigger scope of things. And this is one of those times.

Right now PLD and WAR for the most part are very balanced right now. And from a game design perspective giving PLD access to PGL will tip that balance. Right now PLD's small cure is good enough. If I am taking 500 damage a hit and only healing for 200hp. That is not that good. If I have 20% damage mitigation... Well now I'm taking 400 damage to my 200hp heal. If I have 40% mitigation, I'm taking 300 to my 200 hp heal. So when you look at PLD's healing by itself... yeah its small potatoes... but when you look at PLD's healing in combination with their damage mitigation well that small heal can go a LONG way.

Sorry, only master race Warrior gets all those sweet PGL perks