Battle High in Frontline

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Originally Posted by Deccado

I really think it should just be removed altogether. PvP should be down to the players skill IMO, not down to whoever managed to stack BH first.
I DO like not losing it when I die, though, but then I queue solo and it is not really changing my matches all that much, it’s still mostly 3 teams of bad who spend more time arguing than fighting, many of whom still cannot manage to get BH5 throughout a match.

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I will be straightforward.
Without Battle High, PvE rouletters and casual players who only queue for rewards are even less likely to secure kills.
They will just end up getting farmed harder.

ARR Frontline already proved this with the old Battle Fever system.
Back then, assists didn’t contribute toward Battle Fever, which meant the players consistently getting kills are usually experienced PvPers
They were the only ones stacking it and snowballing the match.
Veteran players are going to secure kills either way.
You are not realistically stopping that.
Battle High at least gives less experienced players a way to push back through numbers and assists instead of making kills entirely exclusive to the strongest players in the match.

Getting more points and Battle High for taking down someone with hogh Battle High is something I have been wanting, but not the no battle high lost. Would make it worthwhile to take down players with battle high instead of going after the small fry.

In general, I don't think the main issue is duty design - though there are definitely adjustments that could be made here and there (Worqor design, especially). The main issue seems to be the community attitude towards PvP.

PvP isn't for everyone, sure, and there will always be some who see it as too much to ask for for them to make an effort in a duty they themselves signed up for. But I don't think the game does anything to support players entering PvP for the first time.

Firstly, the game almost sets it up as an irrelevant side-quest; The quests to unlock Wolves Den Pier access, CC, and FL are all individual side-quests within a sea of other side-quests in the starting cities. Not only can these be easily overlooked by new players who are just joining the community and overwhelmed by the flood of quests available, but even when unlocked, there is minimal explanation of what they've just unlocked.
The few official guides to PvP are all online, requiring players to go away and look for them themselves. There is no 'Hall of Novice' type training to assist anyone wanting to get to grips with the basics of PvP but not sure where to start.

So, when new players do queue, they'll look to just follow the crowd, assuming the other players all know what they're doing - in reality, the crowd have no idea either.
Because they've no clue of how to PvP, objectives become the only part they develop some understanding of, so FL roulettes become a spam of blindly running to whatever objective spawns first/closest/highest value, with zero consideration of other factors such as score or positioning. When it all goes wrong because they've handed the win to first place by giving them an A-rank uncontested to fight 3rd place for an S-rank, or because they've placed themselves in a prime position to get flanked by an enemy team, or they've not bothered to get the BH to fight back and defend later in the game, the general response is "it's only PvP, who cares anyway?". A dismissive response that then gets adopted by incoming players.

Most players just become mindless sheep in FLs, leading themselves into obvious danger at the lure of an objective and getting angry when a veteran player warns them that that's not a good idea and tries to lead them differently. The anger quickly turns into the dismissive "who cares anyway? It's only PvP not that deep" when it's proved that the veteran's warning was actually correct.

SE keeps trying to alter the game design (like BH, respawn timers, etc.) to try to encourage PvP and make casuals feel less apprehensive of actually engaging in FLs, but it leads to nothing but whining of unfairness from the very players it's supposed to support because the core issue isn't so much duty design, but the players themselves. All starting from that initial unlocking of PvP duties

I had a match in Fields of Glory, where Flames nuked both Mael and Serpents. It just wasnt possible to fight Flames, the entire team was stacked on BH.
Ofcourse there is a possibility, that Mael was full of bots or players not really caring about engagement. But the match was simply not fun. There was no turnover checkpoint. The match ended after 5min.

It doesnt matter if people only want their quick rewards. Frontlines was not perfect, but it was at least playable pre BH change. If you want quick gains, go spam CC.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

It doesnt matter if people only want their quick rewards.

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It does matter. Very much.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

I had a match in Fields of Glory, where Flames nuked both Mael and Serpents. It just wasnt possible to fight Flames, the entire team was stacked on BH.

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If they're dominating as much as you say, whether it is the old or new BH system would be irrelevant. There is clearly an immense skill difference between the teams, leading one to have full control of the game. Even with the old BH system, it would remain exactly the same. In fact, under the old BH system, they would have gained that BH even faster, as the new system rewards less BH for their kills (you only being BH0).

So the issue in this scenario isn't the BH change, it's a huge skill difference between the teams.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Frontlines was not perfect, but it was at least playable pre BH change.

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It is still playable now.

SE makes changes > players complain that they're losing because of those changes and the system was better before > new changes are made > players complain again that these changes are causing them to lose.

Again and again the blame is pushed from one thing to another, rather than waking up and admitting the reality of what the true issue is: the players.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

If you want quick gains, go spam CC.

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Personally, I like full-time, close games.

If you want exp, go spam PvE.

Pretty sure a team doing literally double the damage of another is going to stomp no matter what. Especially since you can no longer remove said buff in the first place.

Battle high is at least playable when you can remove it from a player, but it's still a bad concept. Getting more points from actually pvping is good instead of the pve slogfest for 20 minutes.

But with battle high being unable to be removed it's become a joke. Hopefully the guy actually doing this doesn't have changes as braindead as this in pve, but I guess we'll find out the hard way together won't we?

A coordinated/competent team will get bh5 consistently no matter how many times you kill them. Can it be said about your team though?
You wipe a leading team once and the very next time you see them they are full bh5 again. With the changes at least you cannot bully a random team into not having any bh, wouldn't you complain that your team gets wiped repeatedly to the point it can't recover ?

l actually find it much more fun to play. one reason l liked rw a lot more than fl is due to the fact l don't lose stacks. l actually don't mind it changes back. doesn't change the main thing l want from fl

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Originally Posted by MayuAmakura

Are you tired of seeing GNB and VPR every match? Kek

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I really wish I could watch the gameplay of people who complain about GNB and VPR in FLs.

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Originally Posted by Ilisidi

Getting more points and Battle High for taking down someone with hogh Battle High is something I have been wanting, but not the no battle high lost. Would make it worthwhile to take down players with battle high instead of going after the small fry.

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that was the issue at hand, it didn't stop the gank fest from happening before the change, 2nd or 1st would either steamroll last place for points to get battle irregardless. SE needs to adjust it where the death results in more point loss depending on BH rank and less to the very minimum points to those with little to no BH.