SE: Savage Difficulty Spike and PF Toxicity Shows we need Hard Raids

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Originally Posted by Hastatus

So where do those players who 'do not belong' in Savage go?

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Extreme Trials and Chaotic Raids.

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Originally Posted by Hastatus

So, SE, the next time you are tuning Savage use MINE rules and consider not using food or pots. Stop tuning with the assumption that the best players will have access to new better gear, food, and pots. Force them to continue using the gear from the previous tier. Doing so would allow the exact same fights to be copy and pasted into a Hard Raid mode so that more players can participate and enjoy the content sooner. You just have to split the content into forced MINE and unsynced variants using a lower initial ilvl tune. The same amount of work on your end resulting in two difficulty modes might help increase your content's popularity.

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Hardest content should reward the best gear.

Either accept you're not good enough for Savage or strive to improve and make yourself good enough for Savage.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

This is true.

However, more generally, you're not going to produce this comfortable funnel from normal --> hard --> savage that significantly increases the number of players who choose to challenge themselves beyond normal.

The fundamental road block IMO is that, in NA/EU in particular, twitchy DDR fight design simply does not interest most players. And in DT I've heard far more people say they're not even bothering with the normal raids, because they find them too tough and/or boring.

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I'm sorry but if people find these normal raids or trials hard, that's a skill issue.


They aren't Endwalker easy sure but they aren't super hard.

There are enough difficulties and raid styles. People simply don't play them because they're crap. I rather read a book that will benefit me in life at some point instead of spending X hours to learn a braindead choreography in a video game. Or I'm just playing any of my other thousands Steam games that all provide an infinitely better experience than FFXIV raids.

You know that the game is trash when the meme content like BLU arena and DD solo actually is the highest brain/skill content with the most personal expression involved.

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Originally Posted by NightHour

I'm sorry but if people find these normal raids or trials hard, that's a skill issue.

They aren't Endwalker easy sure but they aren't super hard.

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Yes, of course it's a skill issue. It's also a boredom issue with the monothematic fight design.

A skill slider would stop the tryhards from suffering ennui and the less skilled from leaving.

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Originally Posted by Hastatus

Savage Raids: Using the current 7.2 Savage ilvls as an example for my purposes, when you are creating your next Savage tier or further in the future, tune it to ilvl 730 AND sync it to ilvl 730. Essentially force Savage to be MINE (minimum ilvl, no echo) permanently upon release and forever.

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So essentially make the savage content unclearable for the majority of people that have a job and can't raid for 12 hours a day like those week 1 streamers.

wow, fantastic.
Get a life man.


get one damage down = wipe, great concept.

I would prefer to not add more min iLvl/ ilvl sync content. BiS gear already has bearly any use except for savage speeds and ultimates.

However. I would like some more content in between Savage and Ultimates. Maybe even something above Ultimate that gets released only once per expantion.

I don't care about ex trials, they're the same slop than savage and other arena bossfights. Difficulty isn't that much apart if you consider that the first fights of a savage tier can play in the same ballpark.
What we need more of are CLL and Dalriada types of pve, and not gated behind a lot of junk.

another 8 man boss in a boring arena?

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Originally Posted by Valence

I don't care about ex trials, they're the same slop than savage and other arena bossfights. Difficulty isn't that much apart if you consider that the first fights of a savage tier can play in the same ballpark.
What we need more of are CLL and Dalriada types of pve, and not gated behind a lot of junk.

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Add criterion minus the savage in disguise minutiae & BA without the chaotic entry point into that list there.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

another 8 man boss in a boring arena?

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I specifically referred to the non standard boss sections of both, notably most of CLL with the wall battle and the PoVs to free, and the beginning of Dalriada with the laser rooms. This is where it truly feels like I'm raiding an actual dungeon or place and not just fighting on a nonsensical ring seeing the same mechanics over and over.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Add criterion minus the savage in disguise minutiae & BA without the chaotic entry point into that list there.

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Are we speaking about the criterion add phases or criterion in general?

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Originally Posted by Valence

[...]Are we speaking about the criterion add phases or criterion in general?

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I guess I should've wrote 'minus the savage boss encounters' instead.