Raise and the balance issue

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

well, I see your point but Yoshi P mentions that he did lower RDM and SMN damage because of raise.

he is using this as an excuse to nerf them.

Healers raise will function the same, having 2 charges each 60 s is reasonable, if 3 people died in 60s, the run is doomed anyways, they can't reach the damage check specially when it comes to high-end raiding.

yes in some scenario it will be bad specially if you revived in a place where floor drop

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

FFXIV players are so obsessed with DPS
I know this isn't only FFXIV but MMOs as a genre,

But why? I play video games from many other genres that doesn't have this problem and I it is more competitive than any MMO out there.

As someone who comes from PvE and PvP games both I never encounter a game that so obsessed with DPS meter and balance like FFXIV.

Even though I don't believe in balance in FFXIV or other games.

DPS,HPS is the only 2 factors in the game that will make X job a better instead of having a good gameplay and fun experience trying different new things even if it feels troll.

It doesn't make me feel comfortable really, If I quit raiding it is because of this.

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https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...essed-with-DPS

you mention high-end raiding, but a lot of players don't do that content, right? That's one of the big complaints I've seen brought up here especially with the release of patch 7.1 with the chaotic alliance raid and the ultimate - that not many people do this content so there's really not a lot for casual players to participate in

Normal content for the most part doesn't have enrage mechanics and with how the ilvl system is we can breeze through most of the older fights without much worry despite constant deaths in the party

The issue is almost never the fact we can't meet damage checks, but because if the healers die then most jobs don't have the sustain to keep going and it becomes a battle of attrition; which is fine, I don't think the party should be able to withstand a boss's full onslaught for an extended period of time, but on the other hand I don't think red mage and summoner having these skills is inherently harmful.

I do understand that them having it will likely always result in them having lower DPS but is that necessarily a bad thing? Personally I enjoy jobs having utility and so they can help out the party, it's why out of the tanks I like paladin the best for its wide range of skills to support

I'm not sure about the healer choices portion if a caster dps can no longer raise.

As choices I have seen sometimes were "Tank dies, healer prioritizes raise over heal. DPS who has the aggro being neglected and dies, tanks up but may not be fully after the invul window."

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

it is not big I agree if you just count how much X job do DPS but the thing is we can't really count how much X job do utility,

current RDM even if they lower their damage to MCH level it will still be viable not because of damage but because of utility not any utility but a raise that has 0 cooldown and insta cast after jolt.

SMN doesn't have swift cast but it has rezz which still a big part of why people play this job in the first place,

Rezz is the strongest spell in healers kit, giving that away to DPS will have some sequences and we see it now of how we balance DPS jobs around DPS when they have utility too that we don't balance it around it.

RDM and SMN could be in someplaces superior and could be inferior jobs based on situation, but I am sure they can't be balance with the current state with Rezz in their kit.

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SMN very much does have Swiftcast. It is literally a caster role ability, all magic dps have swiftcast. The reason SMN and RDM do less damage is also more than just their raise ability. Both of them provide party buffs, and RDM can (for a very brief moment) pump out some fast heals to get a healer back up. They take a hit in the DPS of this because otherwise, if they did anywhere near BLM then what is the point of bringing a caster with no raid utility or buffs that really just wants to turret in an anti-turret fight.

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

Raise skills causing balance issue for DPS and the damage is noticeable when certain DPS jobs are valid because of they have a "Raise"

1- Remove Raise completely for DPS jobs.
6- jobs like astrologian can have kit of true time mage.

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0 - Balance doesn't matter as much as job flavor.
1 - Just make it so that the jobs that have a raise are not penalized DPS-wise.
1.2- And to balance that, easy fix: make phoenix downs usable during fights.
6 - I would rather have a time mage and continue with the trend of removing time magic from Astro, the same way White mage is now doing mostly holy spells and leaving wind/earth so that hopefully we can get a Geomancer later.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

0 - Balance doesn't matter as much as job flavor.
1 - Just make it so that the jobs that have a raise are not penalized DPS-wise.
1.2- And to balance that, easy fix: make phoenix downs usable during fights.
6 - I would rather have a time mage and continue with the trend of removing time magic from Astro, the same way White mage is now doing mostly holy spells and leaving wind/earth so that hopefully we can get a Geomancer later.

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No thanks, kindly don't conflate a DPS discussion with further "enhancements" to AST, ASTs have already suffered enough thank you.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

No thanks, kindly don't conflate a DPS discussion with further "enhancements" to AST, ASTs have already suffered enough thank you.

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I am not really speaking about any enhancement to AST, as they already don't do any time magic anymore...aside maybe from Lightspeed, but this is just Presence of Mind with some AST flavor.
You are never going to get time magic again with AST anyways, time to move on.

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Originally Posted by Xactly

I'm not sure about the healer choices portion if a caster dps can no longer raise.

As choices I have seen sometimes were "Tank dies, healer prioritizes raise over heal. DPS who has the aggro being neglected and dies, tanks up but may not be fully after the invul window."

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While I also think that you should keep the living ones alive before you start raising the dead ones: That's a legitimate choice to make. The dps gets sacrificed to get the tank back up so the tank can get the fight under control again. The dps likely will die anyway at the next tank buster.

But even if a healer does make a bad choice: It's a good thing that he is able to, otherwise the game would play itself and how fun is that?

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Originally Posted by Garnix

I am not really speaking about any enhancement to AST, as they already don't do any time magic anymore...aside maybe from Lightspeed, but this is just Presence of Mind with some AST flavor.
You are never going to get time magic again with AST anyways, time to move on.

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Did you really forget what you posted already? Here it is again "I would rather have a time mage and continue with the trend of removing time magic from Astro, the same way White mage is now doing mostly holy spells and leaving wind/earth so that hopefully we can get a Geomancer later"

While you may be correct about future AST changes, unless you have some inside information, neither you nor I can be certain of them- so stating them as a certainty would be misleading, and telling someone to "move on" is not up to you. You may or may not get a Geomancer, fine- make your argument for getting one. I, as well as any one else- can decide if they want to ask for job changes when they want .

The far simpler solution would be to slap a long CD on Caster raise ala Blue Mage, if they insist on keeping it. Personally, I'd rather they didn't because it's become such an issue for them to balance around but putting a limit on Caster would be a decent enough alterative.

If RDM's damage is gonna continue to be held back by Verraise, at least give me a spatula or a squeegee for a weapon glam.