Azem on the Final Days? A Perspective

not gonna lie I am sure we actually are the last ascian alive too

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

not gonna lie I am sure we actually are the last ascian alive too

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Ascians are largely defined by their allegiance/enthrallment to Zodiark and their dedication to the Rejoining, so that immediately rules out the WoL. If you want to define it as "person with the (remnant of a) soul of an Ancient awakened to their past lives", that theoretically leaves things open to any and every reincarnation (because Ascians consisted of more than just Convocation members). Claudien, for example, could be eligible in that case.

And as far as being the "last alive", we know for a fact Gaia's still alive and well too. Whether or not she identifies as Loghrif any longer, the text suggests she still has -- or could regain -- access to the abilities we associate with the Ascians.

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Originally Posted by Turnintino

And as far as being the "last alive", we know for a fact Gaia's still alive and well too. Whether or not she identifies as Loghrif any longer, the text suggests she still has -- or could regain -- access to the abilities we associate with the Ascians.

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Yeah, there is not a definition of 'Ascian' that could possibly include us and only us as the only one, thanks to Gaia.

Well, unless your angle is that the WoL's just a knowing red-masker and has been pulling the long con for, let's be honest, at least two expansions too long.

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Originally Posted by Turnintino

Ascians are largely defined by their allegiance/enthrallment to Zodiark and their dedication to the Rejoining, so that immediately rules out the WoL. If you want to define it as "person with the (remnant of a) soul of an Ancient awakened to their past lives", that theoretically leaves things open to any and every reincarnation (because Ascians consisted of more than just Convocation members). Claudien, for example, could be eligible in that case.

And as far as being the "last alive", we know for a fact Gaia's still alive and well too. Whether or not she identifies as Loghrif any longer, the text suggests she still has -- or could regain -- access to the abilities we associate with the Ascians.

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I always forgot Gaia not gonna lie haha but technically we are in... omg I forgot the name but you know lahabrea son but just early and I used ascian to refer to the people in itself too

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Originally Posted by Turnintino

Ascians are largely defined by their allegiance/enthrallment to Zodiark and their dedication to the Rejoining, so that immediately rules out the WoL. If you want to define it as "person with the (remnant of a) soul of an Ancient awakened to their past lives", that theoretically leaves things open to any and every reincarnation (because Ascians consisted of more than just Convocation members). Claudien, for example, could be eligible in that case.

And as far as being the "last alive", we know for a fact Gaia's still alive and well too. Whether or not she identifies as Loghrif any longer, the text suggests she still has -- or could regain -- access to the abilities we associate with the Ascians.

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Although it wasn't formally established, it was heavily implied that the original Golbez (who 'died' a long time ago) was a Azem shard too. He's currently sealed in Memoria but I guess it's not completely impossible that he could be written out of that situation.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Although it wasn't formally established, it was heavily implied that the original Golbez (who 'died' a long time ago) was a Azem shard too. He's currently sealed in Memoria but I guess it's not completely impossible that he could be written out of that situation.

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It was not implied, this was collectively decided with absolutely no real evidence because the community went 'yeah it'd be cool'. The actual highest-likelihood candidate for the Azem shard of the Thirteenth is our Reaper Avatar.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

It was not implied, this was collectively decided with absolutely no real evidence because the community went 'yeah it'd be cool'. The actual highest-likelihood candidate for the Azem shard of the Thirteenth is our Reaper Avatar.

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Fair enough - I could've sworn there was something a little more 'official' said on the matter but I stand corrected. Hadn't realised that it was more fanon than fact.

I wouldn't say that there isn't any real evidence. That and the avatar being a shard is given as a guess. Sure, you can say that the only reason why they don't give real Golbez any voiced lines the 1st time you see them with Durante is to hammer home story wise that the Golbez we have been dealing with isn't the real one. Yet if that's the only reason then why not give them a different voice? Why then later have them imposed ontop of the WoL and shoot that scene from a perspective where it comes off as Durante is somehow directly speaking to the WoL and the real Golbez? That he could be talking to both of them even after the real Golbez steps forward. You can also say that the only reason why they didn't want to show us the face of real Golbez is to save themselves from having to render a really big Ardbert head. But with them not showing one it gives more weight to the theory as the only real explanation would be that Durante decapitated Golbez and the head is still inside the helmet.

To me the only reason why they finally have us shake the only other character many pegged for our 13th shard is to put that theory to rest with there no being any what I'm calling a soul recognition glow. As we didn't get any with Zero unlike the two times we touch Ardbert. Now you could go and say that light only showed up due to the light of the Lightwardens acting up but then why linger on the fistbump if it's only meant to be a fistbump. Course with the avatar you could say that the reason there is no soul recognition spark happening is it would get annoying real fast any time we go into avatar mode. Or that the avatar itself is too corrupted for that spark to show. But until they show the WoL in a cinematic as a reaper and thus make reaper a cannon job they picked up I don't think we should give the avatar being the WoL's 13th shard more weight than real Golbez.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Why then later have them imposed ontop of the WoL and shoot that scene from a perspective where it comes off as Durante is somehow directly speaking to the WoL and the real Golbez?

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The simple justification that doesn't require Golbez to have any specific resonance with the WoL is that everything after finding the Memoria crystal is just a recording of Golbez's memories. We experience memory-Durante speaking directly to us because in the actual event he spoke directly to Golbez, and it doesn't necessarily have to be any more complicated than that.

"My friend" - zenos durante, the giant blonde swordsman capable of holding his own with golbez. If it wasn't so close to 6.0 it'd seem less coincidental, but with the patches revolving around zero (zenos's avatar) it's just so suspect. There's enough parallels to draw that saying it's the reaper avatar 100% french french seems a bit hasty.

Afaik the evidence for the reaper avatar it's just that it showed up when called and the out of game ee3 speculation?

edit: presumably if the best match was otherwise indisposed by eg being stuck in a rock or having a pet dragon someone else would show up?