We cannot achieve balance while DPS jobs have utilities

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Originally Posted by royox

True. The solution should be eliminating all the utility from the DPS jobs and leave all the utility for BRD and DNC. Maybe create 2 more DPS with mostly utility (one Magical and one Melee).

But 2bh, I always though that the core of the problem is to have 3 main roles (tank, healer, dps). If we had Tank, Healer, Buff/Debuffer, DPS it would be solved.

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Giving utility skills to healers and tanks could solve the problem but not at all

We have dance and bard who has support kit where they should go?
They are not selfish dps
They are not healers

Not only them but red mage and summoner having rez as selfish dps?
This 100% will mess with the dps design

Weather we remove all utilities and rez from dps and reworking 2 jobs
Or create support role to fill the gap

There is no 100% currect solution but there is a better solution

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Giving utility skills to healers and tanks could solve the problem but not at all

We have dance and bard who has support kit where they should go?
They are not selfish dps
They are not healers

Not only them but red mage and summoner having rez as selfish dps?
This 100% will mess with the dps design

Weather we remove all utilities and rez from dps and reworking 2 jobs
Or create support role to fill the gap

There is no 100% currect solution but there is a better solution

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I'm asking from a real position of "i don't understand". What's wrong with SMN and RDM being able to rez? I've been a SMN main since...omg since 2.0 and I always considered that fact just a normal thing...? It's nice to have yet another chance to push a try when both healers die by ressing one or both of them sacrificing most of my own MP and dps uptime.

If something, I think the game needs to have more personality in the jobs and give each of them more stuff that the others don't have.

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Originally Posted by royox

I'm asking from a real position of "i don't understand". What's wrong with SMN and RDM being able to rez? I've been a SMN main since...omg since 2.0 and I always

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For some bizarre reason people think if Summoner has Raise deleted it’s suddenly going to get its personal dps skyrocketed into the stratosphere lol. Same with ranged phys support, people think if they just delete all the support abilities they can get SAM/BLM top-tier personal dps (lol)

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Originally Posted by royox

I'm asking from a real position of "i don't understand". What's wrong with SMN and RDM being able to rez? I've been a SMN main since...omg since 2.0 and I always considered that fact just a normal thing...? It's nice to have yet another chance to push a try when both healers die by ressing one or both of them sacrificing most of my own MP and dps uptime.

If something, I think the game needs to have more personality in the jobs and give each of them more stuff that the others don't have.

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The problem is developers thinks that overpowered and for that reason they nerfed SMN damage below any caster or melee dps job by a margin

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Originally Posted by Tunda

The problem is developers thinks that overpowered and for that reason they nerfed SMN damage below any caster or melee dps job by a margin

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Pretty sure that’s because it’s universally considered the easiest job in the game lol. Summoner would be the bottom tier dps even without Raise

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Originally Posted by Connor

Pretty sure that’s because it’s universally considered the easiest job in the game lol. Summoner would be the bottom tier dps even without Raise

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I still think this way of balancing things is stupid. Complex jobs should draw people to play them because they are fun and satisfying to play, not because they have bigger numbers.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Pretty sure that’s because it’s universally considered the easiest job in the game lol. Summoner would be the bottom tier dps even without Raise

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I believe picto is as easy as summoner and red mage

Developer intended to keep summoner and red mage in bottom for 2 reasons: 1 utility / 2 raise

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

I still think this way of balancing things is stupid. Complex jobs should draw people to play them because they are fun and satisfying to play, not because they have bigger numbers.

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I mean, I absolutely agree. Difficulty is always going to subjective to trying to balance jobs around ‘difficulty’ is hilariously misguided. Bard is one of the easiest jobs in the game to me by absolutely miles (literally just GCD-proc-GCD-proc), but that’s because I’ve been playing it since 1.0, not because of some inherent ‘ease’ the class has.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

I believe picto is as easy as summoner and red mage

Developer intended to keep summoner and red mage in bottom for 2 reasons: 1 utility / 2 raise

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As for saying “Pictomancer is just easy as Summoner and Red Mage” , that’s certainly…a take. Somehow I doubt you’ll find many who agree though, since again Summoner is universally considered the ‘de-facto beginner dps’. The point I’m making is that even in the complete absence of both raise and utility Summoner (and Red Mage) are still going to be at the absolute bottom barely above Bard and Summoner. Because to the developers, these are both ‘easy jobs’ and their dps is balanced as such (devs openly admitted they balance dps output based on ‘ease of operations’). The only jobs that get to sit at the top are melee and sometimes Black Mage/Pictomancer

I hate to say it but Dancer and bard is so limited right now

they both got finisher after the previous finisher

I don't think that we need more finishers for 8.0

DNC and BRD can be fit in support role with extra supportive abilities

I believe Astrologian too fit more into Supportive with card system but maybe no I don't know

I used to believe that a support slot would be good, but now if you further butcher classes and remove support abilities they're going to become very bare. Now adding more support/buffs and debuffs to healer would fix the healer problem.