Viper Changes are good, actually

if you increase its duration it also becomes fucking braindead. ya'll just crying just to cry.

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Originally Posted by zaya_moya

ViPER PLAYS SO MUCH BETTER NOW THAT I don't want to PLAY IT ANYMORE BECAUSE IT IS SOOOOOO BOOOOOOOORINNG.

They could just increase gnash time to 25 or 30 sec per apply.

VPR now is brain dead job, zero fun.

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They make the timer long enough and then it still is more or less pointless to keep. This is similar to monk's twin snakes buff. It was trivially easy to keep up and so they deleted the skills used to help maintain it along with the buff itself.

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Originally Posted by Higashikata

Yeah maybe you're right. They should remove the rest of the rotation too because it stops being engaging once you learn it and the fights

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You're over exaggerating what I am talking about for something else and I never said I like nor agree with the change.

I do not like complete changes to Job mechanics but you over exaggerating a mechanic as something that was some how game changing when it was just not even game changing.

It was just there to give us something to do when we wanted to "feel" like there was something to do.


For me I want jobs to be more engaging but not with the lazy way of slapping a Debuff, buff, and positional we have now and call game changing experience with the job. That can be done with literally every single job without giving much thought into it.

Make it so jobs have unique mechanics that emphasis on actually performing as the Job.


For example using Machinist for this, they can provide Machinist with a Sniper rifle skill that base its attack on what type of Bullet it has loaded. Each type of bullet provide different effects for single target, single target DoT, AoE, or DoT AoE.

This brings back the load/reload mechanic as a separate skill from 123 combo as different function with a new skill that allow the Machinist to switch up a Ammo with a Ammo they want.

Using the Sniper Rifle skill will be up to the player and their self awareness because they cannot move when firing the Sniper Rifle. However, they also have to remember which Ammo they have loaded for it to be atleast self aware what kind of attack it will perform.

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Originally Posted by zaya_moya

And this happens a lot, a boss is not a dps dummy.

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That has been their method of trying to "nerf" melee and caster characters but I always feel this was the wrong way to handle it.

Instead of focusing on jobs being more engaging mechanic wise and the loss of DPS is more because players did not play their job decently (decently not perfectly since muscle habits differ between people), they have been focusing too much on forcing players to stop attacking instead. This also why Buffs, Debuff, and positionals been their way of trying to make a job feel "engaging" so they add some kind of panic reason for players when they see their buff, debuff, and positionals not being maintained rather than focusing on the Job mechanic itself.

This lead to another issue being they are trying to simplify Jobs rather than adding on to the Job's existing mechanics. Making Jobs a bit too streamlined rather than building up on a existing foundation mechanic wise.

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Originally Posted by zaya_moya

ViPER PLAYS SO MUCH BETTER NOW THAT I don't want to PLAY IT ANYMORE BECAUSE IT IS SOOOOOO BOOOOOOOORINNG.

They could just increase gnash time to 25 or 30 sec per apply.

VPR now is brain dead job, zero fun.

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If you aren’t having fun… then don’t play it?

Though I doubt half the people complaining will actually stop playing the job. Most just want to complain. Both sides of this argument… those who wanted change and those who didn’t.

It’s all crying at the end of the day when you sit and examine it all. Happens every update or expansion.

I honestly don't know how many people here can argue that keeping it up was some kind of skill check....It was easily the most autopiloted debuff any class has ever had in this game's history. So much so that I'm actually completely indifferent on the loss of it cause I don't think it's going to change anything at all other than instances it falls off cause of adds/the boss runs off to monologue.

Like, if dreadwinder didn't apply it as well I could see people's point but it was like "use 1 skill within an entire 20 sec window every 40 sec". Yall need to stop pretending you needed a 500 IQ to keep it up.

I like the changes. I find debuff management to be more annoying than interesting and after playing it this morning, I didn't find myself missing the debuff at all. Yeah sure, the job is as smooth-brained as they come now. If you don't like it, go play a different job. It was already towards the bottom in terms of complexity anyway.

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Originally Posted by Leonus

If you aren’t having fun… then don’t play it?

Though I doubt half the people complaining will actually stop playing the job. Most just want to complain. Both sides of this argument… those who wanted change and those who didn’t.

It’s all crying at the end of the day when you sit and examine it all. Happens every update or expansion.

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This is such a silly take. Many of us who care are in statics, and signed up to these statics to play a certain job. Viper is the only melee I have leveled right now because I liked it, so it's not like I can just immediately switch.

And many of us are complaining because we genuinely feel like things were better before. Not just because we like to be contrarian. Viper has way less multi-target and phase-based optimization now, the filler isn't even the part I'm upset about.

It might feel cool to go "heheh, these people who care about these things are lame and care too much!" but it really isn't.

They replaced it with nothing on "Vicewinder," no matter how pointless you thought it was surely literally nothing is worse?

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Originally Posted by W00by

This is such a silly take. Many of us who care are in statics, and signed up to these statics to play a certain job. Viper is the only melee I have leveled right now because I liked it, so it's not like I can just immediately switch.

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I mean that sound like it's your own fault tbh. They ALWAYS do balance patches in their x.05 patches, and if you are serious about raiding you should have prepaid for that by having a small pool of classes to pick from after the adjustments, or grin and bear it to play the class you like. This goes double for viper since they openly stated nearly a month ago they were going to do some minor reworks.

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Originally Posted by Eudyptes

I mean that sound like it's your own fault tbh. They ALWAYS do balance patches in their x.05 patches, and if you are serious about raiding you should have prepaid for that by having a small pool of classes to pick from after the adjustments, or grin and bear it to play the class you like. This goes double for viper since they openly stated nearly a month ago they were going to do some minor reworks.

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The removal of the class's core filler mechanic is hardly a "minor rework." They said they would "adjust directional requirements" and "change the effects of some actions."

We had no clue what that was going to mean. Removing a positional from Dreadwinder? Minor rework. Adjusting positional potency or changing Noxious Gash's timer? Minor rework. I would've disliked those things, but I could've lived with them.

Removing a core mechanic from the job? That's not a "minor" rework. And no BRAND NEW JOB has ever been changed to this degree right on release.

No one could've known about this Noxious Gash change and gone "hey static, I might need to switch roles because Yoshi P is gonna nuke my job from orbit!" This isn't anyone's fault but the developers.