Please revert the Viper changes immediately and stop changing it.

Gnash was a fun mechanic. I hope they bring it back and revert these changes. (Other than slither, a much needed fix)

It's a little funny :D

I got through trying the job out again and I believe the changes are okay. I don't think the eternal combo thing on the main GCDs is great but it is something that one can get used to. My gut reaction wasn't particularly good on the changes since it does feel more like a major change than a minor one.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

If anyone is interested, at least the last three pages on the japanese forum also voice dissapointment in the majority.
I only skimmed over it though so you can look here for yourself if you want.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...3%83%AC/page50

I haven't tried it yet after the changes but I get the dissapointment over it.
They didn't change the positionals because of feedback so I would say keep the feedback going (even though I wonder why you don't post these threads in the dps forum, wouldn't that be better to not get buried by other threads?).

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Keep the feedback going? Yeah that worked really well for Kaiten, didn't it? LOL ...Gnashing Fang is never coming back, best to move on now. :D

If it ain't broke, why change it?

I'm going to repeat what I'm saying in other threads on this issue:
Viper is literally much worse now and here's why.

The short but easily reapply-able 20s debuff (With a 40s max) gave vipers something to optimize, as the other two buffs require almost no thought other than when coming out of your 2/6/8/10 min window.
Before going into your reawakening its its fun to plan how you're going to ensure you go in with atleast 22+seconds of this debuff. Also if you set it up correctly its very easy to just apply a single gcd of gnash inbetween the two reawakens should you have miscalculated the timer! Beyond this I have to wonder if anyone who is saying these changes are good ever played reaper, as reaper's triple enshroud was almost always not worth the effort and very clunky.

Dealing with EX1 Vali and optimizing when the boss disengages you for the application of gnash on the needles (first hit of 3 hit combo on needle one, then use dreadwinder on needle two) then spacing out snaps to allow the timing of the first returning gcd on vali to be gnash was a ton of fun to optimize, and even when it was difficult to do, it was not a big deal as you still had 16-8 seconds till reawaken! Enough time to apply the debuff twice!

Viper was always an easy job. Noxious gash was just the one thing other than uptime and positional you could optimize.
Gnash feels truly like a better version of reapers death's design. It almost makes me wish they would make it a alternate combo for RPR rather than being a single button.

For all intents and purposes, Viper plays very similarly. But the few plates that you had to spin have fallen and all you have now is uptime, and positionals.
If you're saying its better I doubt you've ever tried to optimize it in any content whatsoever, let alone EX+ content.

TL;DR it's the worse and honestly more boring, you did not seriously play viper if you think the noxious gash change is good.

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Originally Posted by AddictedToWitches

I'm going to repeat what I'm saying in other threads on this issue:
Viper is literally much better now actually and here's why.
The low timer (20s) on noxious gash caused many vipers to fall into the bad habit of just rotating dread fangs combo to keep the debuff up instead of doing the better Steel Fangs starter for higher potency. When you go into reawakening, you also can't reapply noxious gash during it either meaning you had to play around making sure the debuff was up before you reawakened, making double reawakenings very annoying and the theoretical triple reawakening a near impossibility.
The other issue was when you needed to peel off a boss to deal with adds or another target etc. you HAD to just start a new combo to apply noxious gash or use dreadwinder on it. It felt very VERY bad for a job whose primary draw was getting into a constant flowing rhythm. The INTENT behind the debuff was it would fit into that constant flow but due to how the nature of it being a debuff works, it ended up feeling like hot ass (plus the duration sucked)
Viper was always an easy job. Noxious gash was just the biggest complaint because it's an annoyance (note: I don't like reaper's death's design either but the debuff timer on that is longer and fits better with reaper's comparatively slower GCD and rotation.
For all intents and purposes, Viper plays nearly the exact same, I'd say it plays even better without having to worry about the debuff falling off, and with the buff timers now at 60 seconds, you can maintain your flow past some lengthy phase transitions.
If you're crying about it you never played viper outside of leveling it 80-100 and brainlessly spamming roulettes.
Does the job feel like ass in low level content? Fuck yeah it does, but so does everything else and that's a fundamental issue with the game that's not gonna be solved anytime soon.
TL;DR it's the exact same and honestly better, you did not seriously play viper if you think the noxious gash change is bad

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Thats a fucking SKILLISSUE, sorry but if you are too dumb or fall into the bad habit to overcapp NG all the time its your freaking skill issue

imagine watching 3x in 1 min a debuff icon and still dont get it right, insane how low the skill level of some player is

Yesterday, I played Viper in some instances, and the removal of Noxious Gnash has absolutely, without a doubt, killed a lot of the fun for me. The class plays pretty braindead now, follow blinking buttons, don't ever think about what you are doing.
Overnight, it went from my favorite class to one of my least favorite, and damn I am sad about it.

The overreactions are hilarious, played it for a bit tonight and it feels exactly the same. It was already a braindead job, and maintaining one little debuff doesn't really make a difference. If that's the ONLY thing that made it fun for you, then you probably should find a different job.

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Originally Posted by Macleod

The overreactions are hilarious, played it for a bit tonight and it feels exactly the same. It was already a braindead job, and maintaining one little debuff doesn't really make a difference. If that's the ONLY thing that made it fun for you, then you probably should find a different job.

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It definitely does not play the same anymore, if you truly believe that I have grounds to think that you have not played Viper correctly.
To quote from r/ffxivdiscussion:

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it makes your 1 and 2 combo much more linear as the only intersection is on the 3rd button press no longer on the 2nd
1-1-1 / 1-1-2 / 2-2-1 / 2-2-2

are the only variations now, removing these:
1-2-1 / 1-2-2 / 2-1-1 / 2-1-2

which kind of removes the more interesting aspect of the viper basic combos

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Additionally, minimizing the usage of Dread Fangs was a gameplay element that required a bit of attention. Sure, it was not the most in depth or engaging mechanic, but it was a gameplay mechanic that kept people engaged and interested. Checking whether to use Dreadwinder or Dreadfangs was a decision you had to make, based on how the fight progressed.