Advice on How to Give Advice

Unsolicited advice tends to go over badly in a lot of cases, especially if there was nothing that prompted it.
I loathe the people that launch into a detailed explanation the moment the party draws close to a boss arena (they have these macro'd I suppose?) not even giving the party the chance to try this blind. This is especially aggravating on new encounters that aren't even special as far as mechanics go.

If it's not Ex or Savage give people a chance to fail and learn from it.
If anyone asks for advice by all means provide it. If the group isn't learning, nobody asks for advice and you notice a problem offer to give some.
If nobody takes you up on it you need to make a choice (I usually just work my way down this list):

• let the group try and risk failure again, continue to offer to give advice
• if the issue is moving out of mechanics and you know the dance throw a marker on yourself
• give unsolicited advice pertaining to that specific problem, risk getting yelled at and your advice ignored. When giving advice in this way phrase it as a suggestion, not an order or simply say "[this mechanic] does [thing]" without calling anyone out.
• votekick the problematic player if it's just one
• leave if you think the party as a whole isn't worth your time

There is no elegant right solution to this problem, just varying degrees of stepping on people's toes or letting them step on yours. There is no universally right way of giving advice, it all depends on the situation and the people involved. There is, however, a wrong way to give advice (unsolicited, unprompted and commanding) and it's best to avoid that.

Ask, don't tell.
Ask if they want some help, as you have ideas, knowledge, etc. Then show them the way. Guide them. Telling is often construed as dictating, and creates negativity. Of course some will be offended no matter what you do.

For a game that's supposedly so easy, it's always a bit odd how people need to give advice to strangers so much. Just finish the duty and move on, you'll spend less time frustrated that way

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Originally Posted by KLuz

So I should resign to failing the duty then? What happens when advice isn't solicited though it should be?

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In you original post, you stated that you wanted to be a good mentor. Assuming that's true, then I recommend that you make the foundation of your mentorship one of respect for your mentee.

Here's what I hope is an easy test; when you are mentoring, which of these is more important:

• your mentee getting good ASAP so the content can be completed
• respecting your mentee's distinct needs and boundaries

Any time you are tempted to choose the first option, you are at risk of being a poor mentor. Not only because trespassing a person's boundaries makes them less likely to listen and learn, but also because it means that something aside from your mentee has become your primary focus. If you truly want to be a good mentor, that means mentoring at your mentee's pace. Players who are ready to receive advice will usually ask for it. Players who aren't ready for advice will usually not ask for it.

It's fun to figure out mechanics. It's fun to have that moment of "a-ha!" realization when it finally clicks. Let players chase that. Let players organically iterate and improve. When they want advice, they'll usually ask for it.

So instead of resigning yourself to "failing the duty", resign yourself to "keep trying". After all, that's what your mentee is doing. Whether they learn quickly or slowly, they will eventually get there, as long as nobody gives them a reason to give up.

And that's how you can still be a great mentor in these situations: by mitigating the possibility that someone will get on this person's case for not being good at a game fast enough. By being a cheerleader for the group, you proactively keep the vibes positive and mitigate their likelihood of souring. Saying something like "Hell yeah, getting better! :D" reassures anyone who is having trouble that the vibe is still positive, and that in turn will reduce any critical self-talk they're experiencing, which would otherwise hinder their ability to learn. Plus, they'll have more fun when they're less worried about their group hating them, and that's a great thing to be able to provide to others!

The other purpose of saying something positive is that people often assume that others feel the same way they do. So if someone is feeling negative about the number of failures, they might assume others are as well and feel like they're speaking for the group if they say something about it. When you say something that makes it clear that your vibe is one of positivity, hopefulness, and a willingness to keep trying, that makes it clear that not everyone is feeling negatively, which can mitigate the likelihood of any vocal conflict. It might even encourage them to feel positively about it as well, especially if you can do a good job of encouraging camaraderie.

Sometimes you won't be able to stay positive. Sometimes you'll find yourself feeling impatient. That's okay! You're a person and you have feelings and needs, too! So if you find that you don't have the energy to be the kind of mentor you'd like to be, own that. If you need to, make an excuse about a sudden minor emergency ("My cat spilled soup, I need to clean it before it stains the carpet!") so you can leave the group and attend to your own needs. But it's important to recognize that your impatience is a you problem, and not to make that other people's problem.

I hope that this advice helps you to be the best mentor you can be! Best of luck!

(also, this is advice for normal difficulty content; I can't speak on EX/Savage stuff)

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Originally Posted by KLuz

So I should resign to failing the duty then? What happens when advice isn't solicited though it should be?

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Slap a safety dorito on your head and start jumping in the safespots.

In a dungeon/normal raid situation, I basically just give advice if we wipe twice to the same thing, or we wipe once and someone failed the same mechanic multiple times (causing the wipe). But I'll definitely sass people who spoil mechs before anyone even sees them.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Slap a safety dorito on your head and start jumping in the safespots.

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that would actually be really fun lol. "FOLLOW ME EVERYONE!! FOLLOW THE DORITO!!" :D

Don't. This community has a portion of it that is completely repulsed by the notion that they could be doing anything wrong and will freak out if you give them any advice whatsoever. It's not worth risking your account to try to help these people. If they're preventing duty completion, just vote kick and move on.

I always just say "You want some advice?" if someone seems to be struggling. If they don't reply I don't say anything further... unless we start wiping. Then it's unsolicited advice time. If they get annoyed/toxic that's on them. No point being petty cause they're clearly having a bad enough time already.

Long ago, one player kept dying to an easily avoidable dungeon mechanic: "If you get the beam on you, run to one of the poles around the perimeter to get rid if it before it kills you." Rather than call the player out, I just typed the above quoted line. He didn't fail it again.