Dawntrail is what happens when you forget your own wisdom

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Originally Posted by Shialan

Then stop playing. Vote with your wallet. Sure, you could still keep playing and write forum post after forum post, but what Square ultimately looks at are their metrics. If they see that people are unhappy with the story, but still play this game, they won't really bother to change anything.

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Let me share with you one of my favorite moment in one of my most favorite TV show:

- Doctor 1: you're treat and back to normal.
- Patient (a presidential candidate): good enough to run?
- Doctor 1 : why? You're not gonna win.
- Doctor 2: why not!?
- Patient: know what? I gonna run!
- Doctor 2: good for you!
- Doctor 1: why? What's the point?
- Patient: so you think the only way to make a difference ... is to win every single time?


I hope you're smart enough to understand that last question.

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Originally Posted by Shialan

Then stop playing. Vote with your wallet. Sure, you could still keep playing and write forum post after forum post, but what Square ultimately looks at are their metrics. If they see that people are unhappy with the story, but still play this game, they won't really bother to change anything.

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Yeah, that doesn't work either. Look at Forspoken. Nobody wanted that, very few people bought it, but SE said, what if that, but Wuk Lamat.

Here's the source by the way: Link

And a archive, just in case.

The last sentence is either a mistranslation or changed his mind because we nod all the time and so do other characters.

As for the main character thing, we still are because Wuk Lamat wouldn't have managed any of this without us. They just wanted her to have a significant role/contribution so that they can say she did all the feats Gulool Ja Ja wanted and so she played a part in fighting her main rival, as opposed to being like Minfilia in ARR.

Ultimately it boils down to whether you value a party experience or a solo experience in the game's narrative/story. Yoship got burnt hard with FFXVI, it was a solo experience and it got crushed by the quintinssential party-based narrative game known as Baldur's Gate 3.

We were the "main character" in endwalker and if I rememeber correctly it also got a mixed reception.

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Originally Posted by Rekh

Ultimately it boils down to whether you value a party experience or a solo experience in the game's narrative/story. Yoship got burnt hard with FFXVI, it was a solo experience and it got crushed by the quintinssential party-based narrative game known as Baldur's Gate 3.

We were the "main character" in endwalker and if I rememeber correctly it also got a mixed reception.

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I feel like the real difference was the other characters. Whether we or Wuk Lamat are the "main" character, the writing for most of the side characters was abysmal in DT. We didn't overshadow anyone in Endwalker like Wuk did in DT. I'm reminded of one of the best moments in Endwalker; Urianger and Moenbryda's parents. We were just an observer there as well. In DT, the scions showed no personality whatsoever, and the good character moments from the new cast were quickly snuffed out by Wuk's suffocating presence.

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Originally Posted by Rekh

Ultimately it boils down to whether you value a party experience or a solo experience in the game's narrative/story. Yoship got burnt hard with FFXVI, it was a solo experience and it got crushed by the quintinssential party-based narrative game known as Baldur's Gate 3.

We were the "main character" in endwalker and if I rememeber correctly it also got a mixed reception.

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The problems with Endwalker's reception were from the things that had been built up but were largely tossed aside early on(Zodiark and the Empire), pacing issues(which were copied almost completely onto Dawntrail), the Final Days only really manifesting in full in two zones, time travel being presented in a much stupider way than things like Alexander's paradoxes or G'raha, etc. Shadowbringers is what you should be looking at, because the WoL was the focus of almost everything for the better part of 5.0-5.3.

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Originally Posted by Bitmoar

I feel like the real difference was the other characters. Whether we or Wuk Lamat are the "main" character, the writing for most of the side characters was abysmal in DT. We didn't overshadow anyone in Endwalker like Wuk did in DT. I'm reminded of one of the best moments in Endwalker; Urianger and Moenbryda's parents. We were just an observer there as well. In DT, the scions showed no personality whatsoever, and the good character moments from the new cast were quickly snuffed out by Wuk's suffocating presence.

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I beg to differ, in endwalker and shadowbringers everyone was kissing the WOL's ass left and right.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

The problems with Endwalker's reception were from the things that had been built up but were largely tossed aside early on(Zodiark and the Empire), pacing issues(which were copied almost completely onto Dawntrail), the Final Days only really manifesting in full in two zones, time travel being presented in a much stupider way than things like Alexander's paradoxes or G'raha, etc. Shadowbringers is what you should be looking at, because the WoL was the focus of almost everything for the better part of 5.0-5.3.

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You're making my point, whether the main character is the focus or the party is really doesn't matter; it's the other things. The OP post invalidates itself if we go by your post. Your post is highlighting aspects outside of who's the main character.

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Originally Posted by Rekh

I beg to differ, in endwalker and shadowbringers everyone was kissing the WOL's ass left and right.

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Beg to differ with what? I'm confused where you got WoL ass kissing. This sounds like a preemptive reply you thought up in your head for someone's made up response lol

FF14 welcomes player feedback. YoshiP recently stated that where the story goes after DT will depend at least partically on that feedback, so I don't think "unsub" is necessarily the best response to having issues with an MSQ. As for being one of a party, I think it's a stretch to argue that DT explores party dynamics. Even the npcs in the zones describe us as "one of Wuk Lamat's Retainers". Perhaps they should have paid us in ventures. Shadowbringers and Endwalker played out with the WoL and their party - the Scions/Emet/Hythlodaeus/Meteion etc - in a way that was more satisfying for some of us.