Please fix healers problem without touching other roles

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Originally Posted by Derio

GNB and DRK dont really have a button or series of buttons to sustain them like a WAR and PLD do. So we cant really say all tanks. I highly doubt they are going to nerf WAR considering it is the fan favorite, most played tank, and is the most purchased job level skip.

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I think this is cyclical - WAR is the fan favorite because they made it so OP. It's gotten so bad that I've heard some healers say they don't even like healing Dark Knights.... There needs to be balance and not in the way that no tank needs heals lol.

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Originally Posted by Ianmaru

first, do you play and have complete understanding of tanks? if yes then you would know that tanks have 2 subroles: 'sustain tank' & 'offensive tank'. WAR & PLD are sustain, while DRK & GNB are offensive.
now to answer to the part I quoted: WAR doesn't have both. between PLD & WAR, WAR mitigation is lower (even lower than GNB too). both of them have heals, but WAR is stronger on the heal part, while PLD is stronger on the mitigation part. GNB & DRK on the otherhand, they're not sustain tank, hence they get more DPS oGCDs & output in place of the heals that they don't have.

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Do I play tanks? Yes. I was a pld main until stormblood, and since I've played drk, though not primarily, but I did clear p4s with it while current.

And didn't the war god Xeno throw a fit because war wasn't top dps during one of the ultimates? It has the best or 2nd best invuln, depending on the fight.

Tanks shouldn't be allowed to heal themselves. That's it.

The entire point of the class system is to make each class rely on each other.
Tanks block damage
DPS deal damage
Healer heal damage.

If one of these can do the others job then something is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Ianmaru

tanks have 2 subroles: 'sustain tank' & 'offensive tank'. WAR & PLD are sustain, while DRK & GNB are offensive.

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http://www.wtflmao.com/lmaook.jpg

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Originally Posted by dtv20

Tanks shouldn't be allowed to heal themselves. That's it.

The entire point of the class system is to make each class rely on each other.
Tanks block damage
DPS deal damage
Healer heal damage.

If one of these can do the others job then something is wrong.

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I think some self-healing is a part of Tank class fantasy. Paladins have always had small heals for themselves or others (i.e. Lay on Hands in EverQuest, and some White Magic). It just wasn't the most efficient use of their time, which is why I don't mind Clemency for example. Most people don't really want Paladins spending their time on it, but it's there when needed.

But free oCD self-heals that result in immortality is where I'd cross the line.

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Originally Posted by Slayer25c

It lil late for them to fix the healer issue only way to neft tanks

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And even if they'd go that route, it won't happen for a long time. Doubt it even would be enough time by 7.1.

Time will tell, if they even think this is an issue or just a community one.

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Originally Posted by dtv20

Tanks shouldn't be allowed to heal themselves. That's it.

The entire point of the class system is to make each class rely on each other.
Tanks block damage
DPS deal damage
Healer heal damage.

If one of these can do the others job then something is wrong.

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It's part of the Warrior toolkit since ARR though, it would be weird if they'd remove it now.
But I can somewhat agree that not every tank needs a self-heal skill

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Originally Posted by Willemdarke

I couldn't disagree more. "Fighting through the pain" is exactly the berserker fantasy. In gameplay terms they've chosen to translate that to self-sustain. Maybe shields would have been more appropriate, achieving the same thing, but with a missing health bar still showing, but tomato/tomato.

Healing, shields, mitigation, party support, trading damage for mobility, etcs could all be used to build tanks off of. No one theme is universally better than another. Self-sustain could be better for frequent low damage, but be worthless against infrequent near-KOs. Then you could outgear the content and suddenly tank tools mean little and you want to use the one with the biggest D.

Sure tweak tank numbers and bring them more in line. That calls for balancing, NOT reworks.

And again tanks by themselves aren't the sole (or even major) reason for healer frustrations.

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fighting through pain is fantasy healing that pain isnt its a berserk/barbarin like a wild animal it should get stronger andn harm enemys that harm them by pure wrath not medical, the self healing belongs in paladin period


barbarin fantasy is not self healing its getting angry going berserk to limit the pains impact on you and use that pain to make yourself stronger not heal that pain

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Do I play tanks? Yes. I was a pld main until stormblood, and since I've played drk, though not primarily, but I did clear p4s with it while current.

And didn't the war god Xeno throw a fit because war wasn't top dps during one of the ultimates? It has the best or 2nd best invuln, depending on the fight.

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my question is more on whether you have understanding of tanks or not, because if you do then as I said you would know that WAR doesn't have both healing & mitigation. WAR has healing, but less mitigation and less DPS output and arguably the worse invuln among all tanks. So my point is, if you're asking for WAR to have less mitigations, it has already been that way :)

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Originally Posted by Ianmaru

Please fix healers problem without touching other roles

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Don't think that is possible. Healers and tanks are inherently linked. Roles as a whole need to be address because they are still based on pre SB ideals. Case in point, Physical Range was a support role that restored TP/MP. Post SB they made it into a DPS buff job but so do other roles now.

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Originally Posted by Ianmaru

my question is more on whether you have understanding of tanks or not, because if you do then as I said you would know that WAR doesn't have both healing & mitigation. WAR has healing, but less mitigation and less DPS output and arguably the worse invuln among all tanks. So my point is, if you're asking for WAR to have less mitigations, it has already been that way :)

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War does not have the worst invuln. Not by far.

And war has plenty of mit. It does not have significantly less mit for the significantly more healing output it has.

You are probably looking at number of skills, not the actual reduction.


Depending on the timeline, war is 2nd in dps, or within half a percent.

There is no real difference in dps.


Really curious if you know anything about tanks the way you are talking.