Did tanks really need more healing

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Originally Posted by Valence

What's left to design when tanks can sustain themselves on their own and never die from hits anyway?

If you're about to tell me that it's an encounter design, I'm kinda curious to see the actual nukes they'll need to feed into the game in order to overwhelm even a Warrior. And it amuses me to think of what would happen if it even farts the wrong way and hits something that's not a tank.

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He probably meant to shift the healer design to that of support with dps. The pvp design for healers is exactly that, and it's superb.

It's kind of hilarious how much overall healing and mitigation they've added when we all know the bosses won't do anywhere near enough damage to warrant that much throughput. Especially not at the casual level. Healers are going to feel even more worthless in dungeons.

I wouldn't mind if healers got rotational complexity at least to the level of tanks.

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Originally Posted by Gullis

Tanks gets more healing to render healers useless.
Healers gets more heals to ??????
profit

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Genuinely I don't see how they can possibly up damage enough to match the sheer healing output, certainly not with a once every minute raid-wide. I'd switch to DPS but they're gonna have some wild queue times come Dawntrail.

edit: This was before the whole thing happened

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I wouldn't mind if healers got rotational complexity at least to the level of tanks.

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They dont even really need a rotation, look at bard.
They just need something to maintain there are many ways you could do this. Sage may benefit from a combo attack or a refulgent arrow like proc move off of dosis. Scholar should have dot management no question. Astro could move more into the charging aspect and instead of a dot have a move that accumiliates damage from buffs into a bonus **combustion**. Whm stays the same for the people who like the current 1111 system.
Its not that they need something like a combo which gives meter spender like every single class in the game has right now, its just that they have to do ANYTHING that isn't just maintaining a single 30 second dot and a random oGCD attack every 2 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Teno

He probably meant to shift the healer design to that of support with dps. The pvp design for healers is exactly that, and it's superb.

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It's superb in pvp because it works within the new macrocosm they created in 6.1 pvp. The current pve system doesn't have the backbone or correct shape to accommodate role agnosticism, because beyond healing and mitigation, there is nothing left of the battle system. And if they do remove that, then it's actually scary to think about.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Yes, give me more tools to assist my healers.

The problem isn't that tank gets more tools, it's the healer design that's lacking.

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I feel like this is just wrong. While healers are apart of the problem with healing (actually most of the problem), The current design encounters and tank Design is just absurd in general.

These Mitigations are not needed. I like that the 120cd minute buff is becoming more "unique" I even like the rampart changes, but the sheer amount of Reduction tanks already do ontop of the self sustain has gone past power creep at this point I don't even know what to call it "power power creep?"

I do actually think Warrior got a bad deal lol, due to the fact that it didn't need self healing, its self healing is so power crept that anymore just becomes pointless... it would actually would likely benefit from a extra mitigation/shield effect, but then again I'm glad they didn't give warrior a strong 40%.

Is tanks (and DPS) having healing a bad design? No, it can work but the current issue is how overloaded it is combined with encounter design, In my opinion Self healing needs to be reduced, WAR most importantly, but GNB/PLD too (DRK's seems tame), but also the baseline mitigation tanks have (aka the tank passive and general defensives) Needs to be lowered down, so your general gameplay has a lot more cycling mits for autos...

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I wouldn't mind if healers got rotational complexity at least to the level of tanks.

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I would still mind, very much so. I don't play healer to be a low complexity, low dps, dps job. Tanks already do that, but they also get the responsibility of positioning the mobs/boss, and pace their defenses. With most WAR and some PLD tanks in dungeons healer get nothing besides being a bad dps job, making healer dps slightly more complex doesn't fix the lack of purpose.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Tanks don’t remotely need the sustain they have in EW but hey what the hell, tanks fun is worth deleting the healers

I’m genuinely at the point I hope everyone with even a shred of competence at healing dumps the role and leaves the tanks and DPS with the cure 1 spammers because it’s obvious that’s the only way they are ever going to do anything about the current imbalance of healers

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What fun? They just keep removing abilities and keep simplifying the tanks and then make us immortal meat bags instead of nerfing the problematic outliers.
It's actually hillarious i predicted exactly what they would do with the tanks down to a T.
For the most part, i'm only seeing one group of tank mains that are happy they received the changes they were asking for.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

tanks fun is worth deleting the healers

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This is the very generic being overpowered is fun. (and yes, it truly is fun)

Its however not healthy for the game. But the flaws go further.

What you often dont want is relying on a single role: if a tank dies, they can be rezzed by a healer. If a healer dies, they can be rezzed by a mage. But if there is no mage, you are now without healer.
As tanks have a lot of sustain, they mitigate the loss of the healer by being very tanky. Being often capable of saving the day. It prevents the healer loss from being a guaranteed wipe.

And thats where the real problem could be solved. I realy wouldnt mind if all dps get an option to ressurect. Just make it less optimal than a healer, but at least capable of saving healer: A phoenix down (5min CD and same cast time as healer rez) that demands you standing on the spot (like a 3y range). It makes a mage still more optimal, but without it still allows a recovery. And its this recovery that then allows tanks to get nerfed as healers do get the fallback they need.