June Benchmark feedback - Miqo'te M dead eyes

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

So? You can easily make anyone irl look super weird by taking pictures of them at random times. Looking for every angle of every frame in every lighting condition to look perfect is absurd.

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But that's kind of the point, in a shot that is well lit, and looking directly into a characters face from eye level, the eyes dont look quite right. we should not need to search around with the camera to find an angle that looks correct

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

So? You can easily make anyone irl look super weird by taking pictures of them at random times. Looking for every angle of every frame in every lighting condition to look perfect is absurd.

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So the answer to that problem is to………..make male miqote look terrible in all but a very specific unnatural camera angle?

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Originally Posted by DizzyAlyx

Oh my goodness! I see that your character clearly has the same eye problem, but I suddenly feel a lot better about mine when looking at that smile yours has, what on earth. I think the mouth and lips overall look good, but the corners of his mouth seem to have been pulled up, or at least appear that way because of the lighting? I hope that gets fixed for both of our sakes. Considering we had the EW benchmark 6 months in advance, they really left this one to the last minute, considering how big and important an update this is, they should have given themselves more time, I agree



This is a really good point, I wonder if they did a general edit in an "apply to all" kind of way that they should have checked and readjusted for individual races/sex/face

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https://i.postimg.cc/B6TvRRrG/image.png

Here’s my catboi with the same mouth pull up problem

Face 1 is screwed too. The eyes look as dead as ever, and they completely screwed the mouth. I really hope they fix our catboys.

https://i.imgur.com/Pngbvi4.png

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Originally Posted by DizzyAlyx

But that's kind of the point, in a shot that is well lit, and looking directly into a characters face from eye level, the eyes dont look quite right. we should not need to search around with the camera to find an angle that looks correct

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Look, that particular shot is weird, because it's a closeup on a character whose height can very a lot depending customization, and it's probably the worst possible case. You say it's "well lit", well that depends entirely on your character. Here's what it looks like for me:
https://i.imgur.com/M4rmATZ.png

The eyes do look alive but the lighting is pretty awful overall. Conversely I've seen this shot look super good for some other characters. My point is that particular shot is a huge compromise that they have made that can't really work for every character size. Perhaps if they positioned the lights relative to the character's face, regardless of character height? But that would probably create other issues.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

Look, that particular shot is weird, because it's a closeup on a character whose height can very a lot depending customization, and it's probably the worst possible case. You say it's "well-light", well that depends entirely on your character. Here's what it looks like for me:
https://i.imgur.com/M4rmATZ.png

The eyes do look alive but the lighting is pretty awful overall. Conversely I've seen this shot look super good for some other characters. My point is that particular shot is a huge compromise that they have made that can't really work for every character size. Perhaps if they positioned the lights relative to the character's face, regardless of character height? But that would probably create other issues.

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But he offered like 2 other shots at different roughly neutral angles and they all look terrible, this isn’t just the weird smirking image that looks terrible on near everyone

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

Look, that particular shot is weird, because it's a closeup on a character whose height can very a lot depending customization, and it's probably the worst possible case. You say it's "well lit", well that depends entirely on your character. Here's what it looks like for me:
https://i.imgur.com/M4rmATZ.png

The eyes do look alive but the lighting is pretty awful overall. Conversely I've seen this shot look super good for some other characters. My point is that particular shot is a huge compromise that they have made that can't really work for every character size. Perhaps if they positioned the lights relative to the character's face, regardless of character height? But that would probably create other issues.

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Out of curiosity, could you try taking the same shot I did, before the character smirks? In which their head isnt tiled downwards and their expression is more neutral
As an added note, if I were to give you an example of a "well lit, and looking directly into a characters face from eye level" I'd probably pick this one
https://i.gyazo.com/45b57322a7915035...bd0c9a7bff.jpg

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Originally Posted by DizzyAlyx

Out of curiosity, could you try taking the same shot I did, before the character smirks? In which their head isnt tiled downwards and their expression is more neutral

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https://i.imgur.com/4gZ4lbB.png

Very similar result, lighting is still not great (which I don't care about, it's just in this particular shot, there always will be shots with bad lighting in some cinematic or another), although the eyes are alive.

But:

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As an added note, if I were to give you an example of a "well lit, and looking directly into a characters face from eye level" I'd probably pick this one

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I've tried to make a male miqote similar to yours and the eyes catch a reflection that makes them look a lot better in all the other character creation background (both in day and night), at pretty much every angle. See, the problem is that this character's pupils are very large, so they can look dead very easily (my character have that exact same issue on live currently in fact), and even with the new lighting, the atherial sea backdrop is still pretty artificial and its envmap is still pretty subdued. (I guess they went with a bunch of small bright dots, which is what you'd expect in that environment. So there are no large objects to be reflected, and therefore no large bright spot on the eyes, and this type of eye really need good reflections to bring them out)

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

https://i.imgur.com/4gZ4lbB.png

Very similar result, lighting is still not great (which I don't care about, it's just in this particular shot, there always will be shots with bad lighting in some cinematic or another), although the eyes are alive.

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Your characters eyes look very alive! Very pretty. I think the direct comparison really helps my point, so thank you for taking the pic

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

I've tried to make a male miqote similar to yours and the eyes catch a reflection that makes them look a lot better in all the other character creation background (both in day and night), at pretty much every angle. See, the problem is that this character's pupils are very large, so they can look dead very easily (my character have that exact same issue on live currently in fact), and even with the new lighting, the atherial sea backdrop is still pretty artificial and its envmap is still pretty subdued. (I guess they went with a bunch of small bright dots, which is what you'd expect in that environment. So there are no large objects to be reflected, and therefore no large bright spot on the eyes, and this type of eye really need good reflections to bring them out)

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Yknow what, you make a fair point here, so I went in and took the same picture in the other ones for fairness' sake:

https://i.gyazo.com/c454d92e03a9941d...69d.jpghttp://https://i.gyazo.com/715b81a509be37b9...6e81a7db31.jpghttps://i.gyazo.com/621e39d60095e893...a695af9c8b.jpghttps://i.gyazo.com/cb6283eac5439b0f...18f7ad250e.jpg

Unfortunately though, the dead look is pretty consistent throughout, interestingly you can see it does change with environment, though it could do with being pulled down so the shine is not hidden underneath the eyelashes, because thats what the problem is.

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Originally Posted by DizzyAlyx

Unfortunately though, the dead look is pretty consistent throughout, interestingly you can see it does change with environment, though it could do with being pulled down so the shine is not hidden underneath the eyelashes, because thats what the problem is.

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In real life those reflections would be caused by windows, or lamps, or the sky. Things that are usually at eye level or above, but it doesn't reflect in your guy's eyes because he's constantly looking down. So it's really a posture issue.

i have the same issue with the eyes! the change makes my character look less serious and lively and more calm/tired
https://imgur.com/gallery/benchmark-...face-4-9WVqYkt