Low level Combat gameplay and Job identity is HORRIBLE.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

I done some maths, just for the FoF window, the difference in potency between a PLD in Sastasha and level 90 is this:

2500 potency over 20 seconds for on level PLD, Level 90 PLD does between 6537.5 and 7037.5 potency (between weakest GCDs and strongest GCDs in the 3 free GCDs). That is an increase of 2.615-2.815 and yes, that is using oGCDs of 50 potency (even CoS being 50 potency in total).

To put this into context, if your PLD done 10% of a bosses HP in that 20 seconds, at level 18, at level 90, you will shave off 26-28% of that same HP, this is also before we start taking into account the rest of the party.

Not to mention this punishes jobs that rely on oGCDs for damage. A Job like Warrior is going to suffer less compared to a DRK.

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Not necessary a bad thing if you ask me, especially when 4 experienced lvl90 player get thrown into satasha by roulette, they should clear it faster yet in a more acceptable pace.

Beside, letting newbie/sprout saw what high level job skill look like in dungeon will probably motivated them furthermore to push through the MSQ grind.

Job like DRK might somewhat punished for this kind synched system, but compared to what we have now? It's way better than what we have now.

Before going to wild extremes like allowing every ability unlocked even at low level and whatnot (not realistic at all as explained by others above), I'd like them to just re evaluate the whole leveling progression of all jobs so that at lvl15 they all have a basic combo and AoE, and by lvl50 they get the core of their job mechanics. Above would just be about what gets added on the top. They did this when reworking MNK in EW with the reintroduction of chakra based lower level variants like Howling Fists and Steel Peek for example.

And then there is the nonsensical "you unlock Blizzard 4 here, but Fire 4 only 2 levels later" -> "what do I do with Blizz4 in that dungeon where I'm synced before F4 unlocks?"

It needs a serious cleanup.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Before going to wild extremes like allowing every ability unlocked even at low level and whatnot (not realistic at all as explained by others above), I'd like them to just re evaluate the whole leveling progression of all jobs so that at lvl15 they all have a basic combo and AoE, and by lvl50 they get the core of their job mechanics. Above would just be about what gets added on the top. They did this when reworking MNK in EW with the reintroduction of chakra based lower level variants like Howling Fists and Steel Peek for example.

And then there is the nonsensical "you unlock Blizzard 4 here, but Fire 4 only 2 levels later" -> "what do I do with Blizz4 in that dungeon where I'm synced before F4 unlocks?"

It needs a serious cleanup.

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I for one is curious, what was the reasoning you have against having abilities learned usable in low level dungeon (especially ARR dungeon)?

It's gonna get worse from here, because SE's idea of job identity applies only at max level, not lower level content, which ultimately causes people to buy skips or give up early because early combat is so boring.

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Originally Posted by Azureskies01

Because they would end up having to rebalance all of lower level content to contend with power creep. easier to make the leveling process faster to get people through the lower stuff than it would be to re do everything....again.

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The dungeons were originally designed for far more abilties at their level than available now. And that happened without rebalancing all dungeons. Lower level balance is terrible, max level balance is far far better. On the other hand it's pretty trivial to scale down numbers from level 90 to anything intended for the level of the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Zadood

I for one is curious, what was the reasoning you have against having abilities learned usable in low level dungeon (especially ARR dungeon)?

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As said above, too much potency, stuff is already melting hard enough as it is in sub shb dungeons. Alternatively I'd like them to rebuff a little the HP of all mobs in there, but that's still gonna introduce insane discrepancies between sprouts and veterans. They are already here due to gear differences and personally as a new player I'd feel horrible for not contributing at all and watching the vet(s) just clean everything up for me.

Imagine rebuffing mobs HP and having a party full of sprouts. They'd literally need 5 minutes per pack while full vets would clean it under 30s.

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Originally Posted by Valence

As said above, too much potency, stuff is already melting hard enough as it is in sub shb dungeons. Alternatively I'd like them to rebuff a little the HP of all mobs in there, but that's still gonna introduce insane discrepancies between sprouts and veterans. They are already here due to gear differences and personally as a new player I'd feel horrible for not contributing at all and watching the vet(s) just clean everything up for me.

Imagine rebuffing mobs HP and having a party full of sprouts. They'd literally need 5 minutes per pack while full vets would clean it under 30s.

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Then again, how is clearing a low level and dated dungeon faster than how it's originally was, a bad thing?

Unless FFXIV run on horizontal progression like GW2, with every new expansion released, the gamplay experience at low level dungeon is gonna get worse for both newbie/sprout and veteran due the total amount of abilities in job kit is diluted even further.

This is probably one of the less uglier solution out of other more uglier solutions.

This is one of the bigger problems with the game. Syncing feels terrible. Anything below level 60 is probably mind numbing. New players coming in without expectations won't feel it as much, but they still do feel the simplicity of low level jobs. I felt it when completely new to the game and I've seen other new players that were drawn to level skips in an attempt to make the game interesting.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Before going to wild extremes like allowing every ability unlocked even at low level and whatnot (not realistic at all as explained by others above), I'd like them to just re evaluate the whole leveling progression of all jobs so that at lvl15 they all have a basic combo and AoE, and by lvl50 they get the core of their job mechanics. Above would just be about what gets added on the top. They did this when reworking MNK in EW with the reintroduction of chakra based lower level variants like Howling Fists and Steel Peek for example.

And then there is the nonsensical "you unlock Blizzard 4 here, but Fire 4 only 2 levels later" -> "what do I do with Blizz4 in that dungeon where I'm synced before F4 unlocks?"

It needs a serious cleanup.

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Unlocking all skills isn't that unrealistic. Enemy HP is already balanced on a per level basis, not perfectly, but good enough. Synced content roughly feels the same difficulty as other synced content. The HP scaling just needs to applied to rotations as a whole and balance will naturally be found. Healing and mitigation are less straight forward since healers go from 0% uptime to 100% from level 1 to cap and tanks get more and more mitigation, but the same idea applies. Scale down the effects to make up for having more abilities.

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Originally Posted by Valence

As said above, too much potency, stuff is already melting hard enough as it is in sub shb dungeons. Alternatively I'd like them to rebuff a little the HP of all mobs in there, but that's still gonna introduce insane discrepancies between sprouts and veterans. They are already here due to gear differences and personally as a new player I'd feel horrible for not contributing at all and watching the vet(s) just clean everything up for me.

Imagine rebuffing mobs HP and having a party full of sprouts. They'd literally need 5 minutes per pack while full vets would clean it under 30s.

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This whole argument falls appart when you notice many of the older and newer MMOs allready implemented a Scaling system so you can keep most of your abilities While doing "dungeonfinders" what your describing is not an issue.

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Originally Posted by Zordrage

Its pretty much the most played part of this game.

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I used to think that. Then I just stuck to max level content for a while. It really depends what you decide to do.

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Reaching the End of the Base game at lvl50 and your job still missing most of its Core and Fun rotation and combo gameplay is a HORRIBLE experience...

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It's mostly due to actions mergers, the action/ability upgrade system, ability pruning, etc. As I said they could make more of the rotation available at level 50 to make up for that, but in Sastasha I think it will always be simple since it's the first dungeon.

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Are we seriously arguing that there are some people that MMOs just not meant for them and should not play them to begin with and we should design the MMO for them ?

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Are you seriously arguing that the majority of players of an MMORPG are not casual players that don't really understand the game on a deep level? That has always been the case for a healthy MMORPG, and always will be, so SE is making sure the game works for a casual player that doesn't have a deep, sophisticated knowledge of the game.

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Im all for making early game easy to get into but level 40-50 is NOT early game its the End of the Base game

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As I said, they could make the rotations have a bit more by level 50, but they also need to make it feel like you are progressing as you level up further. For example, will you be quite as excited to get to level 90 Paladin if you already have everything including Clemency and Blade of Faith at level 50?