NIN Huton Feedback

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Originally Posted by Duskane

its 1 less press
you just raiton more

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And never have to think about how to spend a resource. Less thinking isn't a good change.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

It won't make it more boring if that's what you fear. Busywork can't improve anything, especially not something devoid of interest in the first place.

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I don't respect your opinion and wielding the word 'busywork' like a talisman won't add engagement or decision-making back to 50 NIN. 'Busywork' is what people always crow about when systems that they personally dislike are removed, but the accumulated effect is that the MSQ is now miserably gameplay-free for the first 200 hours.

The whole point of a videogame is to confront the player with artificial systems to navigate.

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Originally Posted by vetch

I don't respect your opinion and wielding the word 'busywork' like a talisman won't add engagement or decision-making back to 50 NIN. 'Busywork' is what people always crow about when systems that they personally dislike are removed, but the accumulated effect is that the MSQ is now miserably gameplay-free for the first 200 hours.

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That's because all fights follow simple scripts that we have done a thousand times over. The number of different buttons we have to press can't possibly change that, the game's very design philosophy renders it unable to present any engaging combat gameplay.

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The whole point of a videogame is to confront the player with artificial systems to navigate.

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Yeah, and FFXIV is pretty bad at creating artificial systems that are interesting to navigate.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

That's because all fights follow simple scripts that we have done a thousand times over. The number of different buttons we have to press can't possibly change that, the game's very design philosophy renders it unable to present any engaging combat gameplay.



Yeah, and FFXIV is pretty bad at creating artificial systems that are interesting to navigate.

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But enough talk about normals!

I'm happy that it will hopefully be somewhat balanced at the beginning of the expansion . From what we've seen everything looks like flashier upgrades or replacements to existing abilities and doesn't seem like our main expansion ability will alter the rotation like TCJ, Bunshin and Raiju did . No waiting till X.08/X.1 to balance and fix NIN for old Trick Attacks balancing issues .

Once upon a time I would've argued against hutons removal but a system that just increases gcd is just a outdated design that added nothing to its core gameplay loop other then something to maintain during downtime . We'll still have to maintain our mudras, ninki and now balance kunia which will probably be used for Aeolian Edge and I'm guessing Raijus . Honestly it's only a 20 potency difference between AE and AC now, stacking one to increase the other sounds way better in design then just maintaining a timer .

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

That's because all fights follow simple scripts that we have done a thousand times over. The number of different buttons we have to press can't possibly change that, the game's very design philosophy renders it unable to present any engaging combat gameplay.

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No, having more things to practice and master is something they can do to stop things getting stale. A gameplay loop that asks for softskill practice and decision-making makes even faceroll content more interesting.

It's specifically the FF14 developers that don't realize this -- every other bigtime MMO from WoW to GW2 to Warframe figured out that you can shore up weak combat content by making the kits themselves fun to operate, whether that be done through skill interactions or great-feeling movement or in-depth upgrade crafting or satisfying weapon play, and that these hooks can start working on the player from level one.

FF14 just... doesn't attempt any of that sort of fun and instead relies on its MSQ, visual spectacle, and encounter design to sustain interest, so when that content falters, the game falters.

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Yeah, and FFXIV is pretty bad at creating artificial systems that are interesting to navigate.

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That's because interesting systems aren't the product of repeatable mechanical templates like Limit Cut, but rather arise from the interplay of many little optimizable elements like resource management and positioning that have been ruthlessly purged from FF14 over the last decade.

if they're getting rid of Huton can they at least bring back pre-ShB Shadow Fang or something please? I'm not exactly stoked at the prospect of having another bank and spend gauge.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

The old gauge was already that

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So wouldn’t I be happy if it’s different….? I don’t get your implication here.

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Originally Posted by vetch

It's specifically the FF14 developers that don't realize this -- every other bigtime MMO from WoW to GW2 to Warframe figured out that you can shore up weak combat content by making the kits themselves fun to operate,

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The pve in these games is just as weak as ffxiv's. The only good experience i ever had in WoW was pvp. I don't remember sticking to warframe or gw2 long enough to get to try the pvp there, if they even have any.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

That's because all fights follow simple scripts that we have done a thousand times over. The number of different buttons we have to press can't possibly change that, the game's very design philosophy renders it unable to present any engaging combat gameplay.

Yeah, and FFXIV is pretty bad at creating artificial systems that are interesting to navigate.

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The irony here is that I generally agree with this statement and even your comments about how the other MMO's didn't keep my attention either. That said the ability they took away was essentially haste. The took away, the only unique ability NIN had. It gave flavor to the class and it gave you something to actually work towards in keeping it up to maximize your damage. Admittedly in EW this became insanely basic compared to ShB where it felt more engaging, but getting rid of it and adding it as a trait literally does nothing.

Saying that their combat design is bad doesn't actually critique the issue in a way that provides any meaningful path forward. And removing the ability and labeling it "busy work" as opposed to a unique design choice (which we are losing more and more of these days) which just needed to be dialed back was DEFINITELY not the answer. I mean the busy work at the very least is more fun than mind numbingly doing the same rotation over and over and over with every action you do either just being "damage button", "defense buff button", and "heal button" with 90% of the time pressing "damage button" which has almost no real variance just aesthetics.

Again I understand not being stoked with the combat, believe me i'm not either but supporting them making it more butchered seems so odd. Wouldn't you want them to ADD to the ability? Wouldn't you want them to ADD to the jobs uniqueness? Aren't you bored of them doing less? I mean ffs if that's busy work then why not just make the game an auto play with micro transactions and a Habbo Hotel crossover since the "endgame" is already glam (the word even) and housing. Not everyone wants a braindead experience and things like that were actually helping alleviate the issue. And now that its a trait what REALLY makes it any different from Viper which is just another fast attacking job. Buttons are gonna be stackable, so you better believe each ability is getting its own stack, so its not like we will need to memorize the presses anymore. In fact mark my words. Since they have homogenized more, adding the stacking is going to make people realize the issue probably twice as much as they did before.

Anyways no hate towards you, just passion.

Ok, that's yet another layer being removed. Can I at least have my ST DoT back then? No?

Screw this.