because of duty support is slightly more difficult content even possible?

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Originally Posted by Azlith

I don't think you understood my post. I wasn't making an argument for whether or not some specific thing in the game was made to be easier or harder with the reworks for the trust system. I also agree that the trust system didn't always make things easier. I was simply stating that if you make something more intuitive then it has been, by nature, "dumbed down". Side note, have you done keeper of the lake since the rework? that was made considerably easier to read and therefore a lot easier to know what to do. For every bit of content that was made "harder" or just as difficult by the rework there is another bit of content that was made considerably easier. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing in general, it is simply an observation and it just is what it is.

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I've been doing them all since I have a Dynamis alt and in level-appropriate gear. There are some points of Keeper that were much more obvious before. You used to get large orange line AoEs that you had to dodge. Now you get the dragons on the side with an arrow that is intuitive but expects more from you than the original line outlining exactly where to go. And Rhitahtyn's mechanics were also overhauled and the new mechanics are intuitive and recognizable and still a challenge to actually pull off.

There are still the cases where there are fights are just a downgrade in comparison. Nidhogg from the Aery, Ser Grinnaux from the Vault and the second boss from Castrum Abania.

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Originally Posted by Acelyn

Hearing Yoshi-P mention that the game is too easy and wanting to bring a semblance of struggle back sorta amped me up but then i thought about trust/duty support.

I dont use trust, theyre slow and make things boring and running with people is way more fun because you never know what kinda players youll be paired up with and what that means for the run.

but alot of dungeons have been redone to make them work with the trust, so how will they handle that in the future, im guessing they cant go to far because the trust arent smart enough to handle certain mechanics.

will they have 2 versions of dungeons instead, a simple trust version and another one for live players?

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At its base.
I doubt anything Trust/MSQ related will experience drastic difficulty changes.

And as some have interpreted.

He meant to make it fulfilling, not necessarily difficult-er.

but I hope they do offer more challenges, and teaching challenges.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I actually don't agree with you. They mostly didn't make the dungeons easier because "trusts can't handle it", but because they wanted them to be intuitive/obvious to new players.

Let me give you some examples. The revamped version of Aetherochemical Research Facility's last boss wipes a lot of parties. I get it in-progress sometimes, like the other day.

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and/or because they sucked. Totorak sucked. Copperbell sucked. They're not great experiences for people you're trying to get hardcore into the game. People would outright leave right at the start if they got the OG Castrum in roulette. It was something you'd see almost every run until they changed it. Running past all of Prae's enemies and ignoring most of its mechanics is not great game design either.

Their bosses sucked too. I would absolutely rather have Generic Boss Fight #12398132 over "wait three minutes for successive weak "boss" enemies to drop down so you can kill them". Aetherochemical's boss fight managed to get harder, and with more creative uses of the characters' stated powers, which made it much cooler than the previous version. Gaius is no longer a meme pushover sandwiched between cutscenes literally longer than his fight.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

Nidhogg from the Aery,

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who is now actually consistent with his later trial fight and the Lv80 DRG abilities. like with Ascian Prime and Gaius, they actually had a proper character design in mind now when making this, whereas before all the stuff we associated them with came after those fights were originally made.

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Originally Posted by Acelyn

Hearing Yoshi-P mention that the game is too easy and wanting to bring a semblance of struggle back

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Wait what did I miss, where was this said?

Also to the topic, nah it's totally possible because trusts automatically snap to "do the mechanic perfectly correct" mode even before any mechanic is displayed. There is no complex AI happening that has to make decisions, they are simply just a part of the mechanics happening at this point.

Players who refuse to even conceptualize a scenario that suggests they might have to improve are the real road blocks to adding complexity back in the game, depending on how much the devs want to coddle them vs letting them learn to fly.

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Originally Posted by Acelyn

trust arent smart enough to handle certain mechanics

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????
They can be programed to dodge everything, they don't need to be smart.

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Originally Posted by Ancalagon_Blacktalon

who is now actually consistent with his later trial fight and the Lv80 DRG abilities. like with Ascian Prime and Gaius, they actually had a proper character design in mind now when making this, whereas before all the stuff we associated them with came after those fights were originally made.

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I would still say worse off because it was actually a treat as a healer to get that when you had to heal estinien.

It at least will restrict them somewhat in making new type of mechanics. If I think of the math mechanics in some content, where you need to calculate points to your HP. You will need a coder doing that so that the NPC can do it as well automatically. Or think of having to separate mobs or kite them a certain way into a moving object - like copperbell mines the green slime - not possible or to hard/annoying to code it.
What you get are streamlined dungeon experiences. They can still be more difficult, but they will not be more outside of the box mechanic wise, I would argue.

If this is good for the lvl 90 player that played for years? Doubtful. But for the new players coming in, to quickly learn the basics of mechanics and repeat them - it is a more friendly entry.
I guess this is why we got criterion dungeons as compensation. Wish they would be more popular and not have gear restrictions to the max savage ilvl.

Yes it is possible I think, it's just a matter of taking the design of the fight with NPCs in mind, which I would say is a bit easier to do when you're doing it from scratch, versus when you're doing it after the fact.

Like there are certain mechanics they have done under duty support from scratch, which contradicts some changes made on previous duties, IMO.