Another MMO?

I actually would be fine, even if they made us start from scratch. I have played Everquest, Asheron's Call, Vanguard, MU Online, WoW, FFXI, Anarchy Online, EVE, Flyff, and this. I have never gotten to start with anything other than the clothes on my back and a fresh new world to face. Why not again? Why not another adventure?

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Originally Posted by BarghastTimes

I actually would be fine, even if they made us start from scratch. I have played Everquest, Asheron's Call, Vanguard, MU Online, WoW, FFXI, Anarchy Online, EVE, Flyff, and this. I have never gotten to start with anything other than the clothes on my back and a fresh new world to face. Why not again? Why not another adventure?

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A major reason is because the current iteration of FF14 has an established, consistent population of around 1.2 million characters that are subscribed at any given time.

If you make a brand new game, it often has a huge amount of interest at the start, but then everyone quits after a month. Some of the newer MMORPGs have demonstrated this.

An MMORPG needs to create loyalty and staying power. Reasons to come back, that make you want to come back, again and again.

The current iteration of FF14 has that. Would a brand new game have that? Would it have that if it transferred all its existing content but with a different battle system and different things, that people are not familiar with? Would it have the same staying power? It would be a risk.

Wasn't the original Final Fantasy a risk? Wasn't pretty much every choice Square makes a risk? What about the billions of gacha games they make yearly and shut down in two months? Those aren't risks?

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Originally Posted by BarghastTimes

Wasn't the original Final Fantasy a risk? Wasn't pretty much every choice Square makes a risk? What about the billions of gacha games they make yearly and shut down in two months? Those aren't risks?

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Except there is no real market for new MMOs anymore, it's a different time now to what it was like 20 years ago when MMORPGs were the newest thing in gaming following the lead of the likes of Everquest and Runescape, and thus everyone wanted a piece of the action, especially when WoW then came along and revolutionised the genre. Back then, everyone wanted to 'kill' WoW and take it's place as top MMO dog. Although FFXIV ARR didn't kill WoW (WoW was more slain by it's own maker), FFXIV did give it a broken nose, a sprained arm, a bloodied lip and two black eyes, especially with Shadowbringers' critical success and acclaim.

So, really FFXIV has reached that 'sweet' spot MMOs have been aspiring to, so there is no reason for SE to waste precious time, money and manpower making a whole new game when FFXIV itself will continue to grow and flourish (as it is the next expansion will be featuring a graphic overhaul so it's clear SE aren't interested in making a new FF MMO to replace FFXIV).

Square already operates 3 live 24/7 full service MMO's - FFXI, FFXIV and DQX. They can barely support running these three at the same time. They are certainly not going to add a 4th.

Digital Entertainment sector makes like 70-80% of their sales, next to smaller sectors like amusement, merchandise and publications.

Of that sector one part are MMO net sales, which are down, just btw - to the people here saying it was never more popular and is peaking right now. Financially it isn't really.

https://i.imgur.com/AWbXt35.png

MMO are a good basis for their income ofc, but it is not like it is changing too much. Where they make profit is mobile games, and every major gaming company knows that nowadays, even though I personally dislike it completely. Covid19 restrictions ended at a lot of places, which made them lose out in that category too.

Technically only by releasing FF16, they could keep netsales at a similar level, though due to dev cost, operating income went still down. Barely positive, which made their stock market price crash a little over time.

MMO customers provide a steady income, so it makes sense keeping them happy longterm instead of making new MMO. I think there is a market opportunity for a revolutionary MMO that could become one of the main games played globally, but technology wise it is still too early. I really doubt they have interest to make a FF17 MMORPG right now. They might make completely new other games, not FF related.

A question you can ask is, which game is actually the most profitable for them, where are dev costs low and is still yielding good results... And if it is FF14, would profits rise if they would spend more on devs? (which would be nice for us) Or is it mobile games in the end...

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Doubtful, as MMOs are considered old-hat and far too finanically demanding to bother with, when mobile games are the big money earners nowadays (FFXIV ARR only came about because it started as 1.0 whose development began way back around 2006ish, in otherwords, the heyday of the MMORPG).

A new FF MMORPG simply just doesn't seem likely I'm afraid - especially when FFXIV is still earning enormous amounts of money to the company.

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I do agree with you in principle about MMO is a dying if not dead genre however SE hasn't had huge success in the mobile market with its more recent titles; Echos of Mana, First Soldier, FFXI Mobile, etc... However, I guess successful depends on how much money it was able to quickly pull in rather than long term growth in the mobile game. Honestly the current game industry confuses me as people would rather download a free game then pay for everything in it rather just paying a full product from the start.

As for the original poster, don't count on anything anytime soon. SE would rather ride FFXIV as long as possible to fund its dumber ventures than spend money on secondary MMOs. FFXI remake was dropped and DQX never did make it overseas as an MMO.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Of that sector one part are MMO net sales, which are down, just btw - to the people here saying it was never more popular and is peaking right now. Financially it isn't really.

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That often fluctuates, but it doesn't just include FFXIV and it can include actual sales of the game such as an expansion release. The most specific measure we have is the observed lodestone activity of characters so that's what I've based it on. It has been consistently higher throughout Endwalker than throughout Shadowbringers (except immediately before Endwalker release when it went viral).

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MMO customers provide a steady income, so it makes sense keeping them happy longterm instead of making new MMO.

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I think that has always been the reason to want to have an MMO, especially for SE. The consistency of the income is better than a lot of game companies have it, where their income comes from the sale of the game and then they have to struggle when they run out of money and are still developing the next game.

A company famous for finding an alternative way to prevent themselves going bust was EA, who instead of making an MMO, consistently released brand new but rushed sequel games every year or two, as well as rushed games for movie releases.

Now companies choose the "neither" option and just release DLC (which is very similar to MMO patches/expansions and releasing a new sequel regularly) or sell virtual items in the game for real money.

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I think there is a market opportunity for a revolutionary MMO that could become one of the main games played globally, but technology wise it is still too early.

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Probably one of the most popular iterations of the MMO genre at the moment is the Battle Pass genre, which is similar in that it brings in a consistent income while offering updates and changes every few months. The other popular iteration of it has been DLC.

Microtransactions are just kinda altogether different, even in the MMORPG genre itself, but can sometimes amount to the same thing ie. buying all the things expansions/DLC with the microtransaction currency.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Except there is no real market for new MMOs anymore, it's a different time now to what it was like 20 years ago when MMORPGs were the newest thing in gaming following the lead of the likes of Everquest and Runescape, and thus everyone wanted a piece of the action, especially when WoW then came along and revolutionised the genre. Back then, everyone wanted to 'kill' WoW and take it's place as top MMO dog. Although FFXIV ARR didn't kill WoW (WoW was more slain by it's own maker), FFXIV did give it a broken nose, a sprained arm, a bloodied lip and two black eyes, especially with Shadowbringers' critical success and acclaim.

So, really FFXIV has reached that 'sweet' spot MMOs have been aspiring to, so there is no reason for SE to waste precious time, money and manpower making a whole new game when FFXIV itself will continue to grow and flourish (as it is the next expansion will be featuring a graphic overhaul so it's clear SE aren't interested in making a new FF MMO to replace FFXIV).

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What I find interesting about this self sabotaging behavior in players is that since we are in the forums, I can only assume we are all fans of the genre, but its like people don't want there to be newer and better MMOs coming out. Regardless of your feelings, SE will make a new MMO and most people will jump ship, just like they did with XI. Making XIV solo friendly via trusts is only a means to enable putting this game out on maintenance mode so people can play it in the future in case they want to revisit older FF titles. This game is following the trajectory XI did.

Not only will SE invest in a new MMO, XIV will start to wane and lose players instead of grow, the formula is stale, the jobs are homogenized, the updates aren't frequent and big enough. The main story has ended. SHB - EW was the peak.

This statement is basically endorsing complacency. It's fine guys... lets just keep it as is. Probably the worst business tactic to use out there, for ANY business.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

its like people don't want there to be newer and better MMOs coming out.

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It's great for there to be a new game, but I am only interested in certain IPs such as Final Fantasy. So for example, why should I play New World? I don't care about it, its lore or its story. Why should I play Ashes of Creation? I don't care about it, its lore or its story either. Graphics aren't everything to me.

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Making XIV solo friendly via trusts is only a means to enable putting this game out on maintenance mode so people can play it in the future in case they want to revisit older FF titles. This game is following the trajectory XI did.

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It will be useful should it ever become like XI, but it is nowhere near that point. It is actually a tactic to grow the game. Get people who "only play solo Final Fantasy games" to play FF14. In passing, they may have a conversation with someone and end up in a Free Company and get dragged into the social environment. It's smart, really, because a lot of people who play an MMORPG are initially quite anxious and don't want to interact with anyone, but fall into the social environment when they bump into someone.

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Not only will SE invest in a new MMO, XIV will start to wane and lose players instead of grow

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It's possible. History says it happens to every MMORPG except WoW, after all. However, WoW is proof they can endure. In the age of AI, it's possible any tangled spaghetti can be undone efficiently so that a game can modernize. So we'll just have to see.

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the formula is stale

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To you. People have been saying that since Heavensward and Stormblood. Because it was a formula even then. "Oh the next raid tier will be 4 alexander raids, 2 dungeons, 2 extremes and an alliance raid". Yes, so what?

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The main story has ended.

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Not true, but you know this.

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SHB - EW was the peak.

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Could be. I'll agree that the viral moment seemed like it could be a peak moment. But it remains to be seen. Neither of us are fortune tellers, and it could go viral again somehow or just continue to grow to have a persistent population that is higher than that viral moment.

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This statement is basically endorsing complacency. It's fine guys... lets just keep it as is. Probably the worst business tactic to use out there, for ANY business.

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The worst business tactic would be to throw away a game that is at the current height of its success statistically (a higher persistent population than in prior expansions), put it in maintenance mode and focus all efforts on a new MMORPG.