Can we have an honest conversation about the Scions? Dawn Trail

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I thought we were done with them. Here is the thing, one of the reasons I'm less excited about dawntrail is because I was seriously under the impression that they were going to phase out the scions and introduce a new cast.

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Where have they indicated that anywhere in any Fan Fest we've had or in the story itself? There are some new characters. There are new characters we don't know on the poster. But there's never been a single indication that they were going to phase out the Scions. Even Alphinaud himself said the disbanding was what they would tell the world. Not how they would act among themselves.

The funniest thing is that whole "Scions disbanding" thing was actual plot point for literally less than a minute before it was revealed that they are not disbanding at all and are just saying they are to the world, but all the people desperate to get away from them took just literally ate it up and are now upsetti because things are happening the way they were said to happen - the scions are still a thing, they just went each their own way for a bit to support the cover story, but still work together when its necessary for their Scion work or even just for personal adventures.

Scions disbanding was an in-universe lie that was directly stated to be a lie literally a minute later, and players genuinely believed it anyway, remarkable.

As a fairly new player, I am not tired of the scions. The only one, who can take a permanent vacation is Y'sthola.

The public disbanding was literally just to get the Grand Companies to stop dropping every catastrophe on the Scions and start solving their own problems for a while. It was never about breaking up the team, it was about breaking the plot away from Eorzea.

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Tataru say we haven't fully disbanded the Scions? Just on the surface they have so they won't have to be at every beck and call?

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I would like to know why if I'm being honest. I've been seeing the scions story play out for 10 years and.... Well basically I can sum up their entire reasoning and philosophy in single sentence.

"For the good of everyone and the star!"

This... pretty much sums them up after 10 years. None of them have complexity and this is not how real people behave. People have way more depth to them than uncompromising and unyielding altruism behind them. It's extremely unrelatable because it feels like we're in a room with a bunch of billionaire philanthropists that have no worries whatsoever, than just doing good for the people.

How can one even empathize or relate to this is beyond me. There is no ambition in any of them, except to sacrifice their entire lives for the good of the world, and I mean while this messaging is good and all it feels like a bunch of cardboard people and marketing slogans really...



Zero was an awful character. It was a blank slate character and they didn't even know what they wanted or how to interact appropriately which is why the scions had no problem brain washing them into being another supporter of the world economic forum. Emet Selch was a good character, there was a lot of complexity within that one. I'm asking for people who show a wide variety of emotions, motivations and actions. Some good, some bad, some selfish.

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I don't really want to argue or debate you but this seems completely out of step with reality and a denial of what's actually in the story just because you don't like the Scions. They absolutely have individual traits and complexity, character growth. They even disagree at times, which they are teasing we might see more of in Dawntrail. So despite not getting rid of the Scions, I feel like they are heading in a direction where you might get some of what you wish -- to see the Scions in a different mode besides saving the world.

Just because they are heroes, with good intentions, doesn't mean they aren't fleshed out characters. I mean sacrificing your life to save the world sounds pretty ambitious. Do you need Thancred to kick a puppy and Y'shtola to take up chain smoking in order to declare them "complex"?

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Originally Posted by IchiroKoto

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Tataru say we haven't fully disbanded the Scions? Just on the surface they have so they won't have to be at every beck and call?

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Yes, they are disbanded on the surface only and now work in the shadows, just like they used to back at the start.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I would like to know why if I'm being honest. I've been seeing the scions story play out for 10 years and.... Well basically I can sum up their entire reasoning and philosophy in single sentence.

"For the good of everyone and the star!"

This... pretty much sums them up after 10 years. None of them have complexity and this is not how real people behave. People have way more depth to them than uncompromising and unyielding altruism behind them. It's extremely unrelatable because it feels like we're in a room with a bunch of billionaire philanthropists that have no worries whatsoever, than just doing good for the people.

How can one even empathize or relate to this is beyond me. There is no ambition in any of them, except to sacrifice their entire lives for the good of the world, and I mean while this messaging is good and all it feels like a bunch of cardboard people and marketing slogans really...

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I think this is the biggest thing. Pretty much all of them except for Y'shtola currently have no goals or motivations. They're just hanger-ons. They're all lawful good and will generally react the same in story events, which I don't think is exciting. Even Estinien who previously had been the anti-hero type has more or less fallen in line with how the rest of the Scions act.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

Given reaction to Zero its good this is not the direction they are going

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Zero was an example of a rushed character that had their entire backstory compressed into a few short cutscenes coupled with amnesia. No one is going to fall in love with that kind of character.

The best character build up is just having us meet characters that are going about their lives and aren't anyone special right away. Kind of like the adventuring team that broke up as we went through ARR and eventually Edda going crazy over her mistakes she made.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

I don't really want to argue or debate you but this seems completely out of step with reality and a denial of what's actually in the story just because you don't like the Scions. They absolutely have individual traits and complexity, character growth. They even disagree at times, which they are teasing we might see more of in Dawntrail. So despite not getting rid of the Scions, I feel like they are heading in a direction where you might get some of what you wish -- to see the Scions in a different mode besides saving the world.

Just because they are heroes, with good intentions, doesn't mean they aren't fleshed out characters. I mean sacrificing your life to save the world sounds pretty ambitious. Do you need Thancred to kick a puppy and Y'shtola to take up chain smoking in order to declare them "complex"?

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We're not, we're discussing. For example the responses in this thread haven't been one sided, meaning that there is plenty of support on both sides to both keep and get rid of them. That's revealing in and of itself. I guess some people do like them after all.

As far them being heroes with good intentions that is well and fine, we just don't see them desire anything but the good of Eorzea. And that's not how typical people behave. How many people do you know that their only thoughts and motivations in life are saving the world? all the time? I'm not sure I find the premise of 2 twin teenagers and their friends going around fixing all of the worlds problems that compelling of a story. I would rather meet more relatable characters who have different ambitions and desires, love arcs, and fleshed out backgrounds. I don't even think the scions are allowed to have relationships with anyone so that the player feels like they could ship their characters with any one of them, but that really stunts their development. I feel like Yshtola finding a way to be together with Runar and getting married would've been an excellent way of retiring her character for example. It's not dark, it's actual much more human and relatable than constantly finding crisis to avert.

So no, I don't hate the scions, I just find them rather uninteresting. I do feel the game would be feel more fresh if it wasn't "The next adventure with the scions 7.0" when the entire 10 year story concluded.

This doesn't mean I want to see them become drug addicts or kick puppies lol.