Why is Blue Mage a more fun healer than WHM/SCH/SGE/AST

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

Like i find playing DPS jobs boring and repetitive to play--> but that does not mean that dps need to be reworked or is bad.

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If healers got more DPS spells it wouldn't change the on demand healing healers bring. But I don't get how adding more dmg spells to healers would exactly "ruin" the job more then making it more appealing.

I think a big issue is you don't even heal much on healer, the design is put your dot up and mash the same button over and over again until you finally get something to do.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

If healers got more DPS spells it wouldn't change the on demand healing healers bring. But I don't get how adding more dmg spells to healers would exactly "ruin" the job more then making it more appealing.

I think a big issue is you don't even heal much on healer, the design is put your dot up and mash the same button over and over again until you finally get something to do.

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The lack of damage to heal up is indeed there, but i dont see how making healers more into dps would solve/better the issue.
I did not choose to play healer because i enjoyed the dps buttons..I enjoy my healer toolkit(healer skills) and i want to use them.

I mostly do DF/PF and get in groups with new and random ppl, so i stil get to use my heals for now at least...
But when i do get an experienced group the dmg output is close to zero.. and you end up beeing a green dps.

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

The lack of damage to heal up is indeed there, but i dont see how making healers more into dps would solve/better the issue.
I did not choose to play healer because i enjoyed the dps buttons..I enjoy my healer toolkit(healer skills) and i want to use them.

I mostly do DF/PF and get in groups with new and random ppl, so i stil get to use my heals for now at least...
But when i do get an experienced group the dmg output is close to zero.. and you end up beeing a green dps.

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I don't see how adding Dmg buttons to healer would ruin the job considering you're going to use DPS a lot as a healer, that's the issue FF14 designs healers to do damage more often then not, even if that was somewhat changed with higher damage Pressing extra damage buttons wouldn't really effect how you heal.

I think something like Astro cards make a expection to this because you're actively giving out DMG buffs while managing a lot more such as healing and your DOT, it adds a extra layer of what you balance compared to something like white mage where it's generally just mashing your DMG skill, even when healing its mainly to build up your burst attack, I think adding more to Healers Damage kit would actually help healers feel more exciting for most types of players and if that's something some healer mains dislike I totally understand, but why do we have 4 healers that all have a DOT and one attack, why couldn't their be some healers in the future with something more interesting and engaging in terms of DPS

Personally I like tanks because of the utility and mitigation they bring, but I don't think tanks should only be about mitigating and holding aggro, I would want something else in terms of damage because it can be fun keeping up a rotation while using other skills.

I understand the want for healers to be healers, but adding 1-2 extra damage skills to some healers wouldn't ruin what makes a healer a healer, I don't think healers should get full on DPS rotations either, but having more to do in down time from healing (the majority of gameplay right now) would at least make the job more enjoyable for me, as I tend to love support roles in games but ff14 healers are just really boring for me to play.

I think what makes a healer fun would be balancing damage and healing output Spamming the same aoe or single target heal spell wouldn't be fun either and damage will always be apart of healers at the end of the day.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

I don't see how adding Dmg buttons to healer would ruin the job considering you're going to use DPS a lot as a healer, that's the issue FF14 designs healers to do damage more often then not, even if that was somewhat changed with higher damage Pressing extra damage buttons wouldn't really effect how you heal.

I think something like Astro cards make a expection to this because you're actively giving out DMG buffs while managing a lot more such as healing and your DOT, it adds a extra layer of what you balance compared to something like white mage where it's generally just mashing your DMG skill, even when healing its mainly to build up your burst attack, I think adding more to Healers Damage kit would actually help healers feel more exciting for most types of players and if that's something some healer mains dislike I totally understand, but why do we have 4 healers that all have a DOT and one attack, why couldn't their be some healers in the future with something more interesting and engaging in terms of DPS

Personally I like tanks because of the utility and mitigation they bring, but I don't think tanks should only be about mitigating and holding aggro, I would want something else in terms of damage because it can be fun keeping up a rotation while using other skills.

I understand the want for healers to be healers, but adding 1-2 extra damage skills to some healers wouldn't ruin what makes a healer a healer, I don't think healers should get full on DPS rotations either, but having more to do in down time from healing (the majority of gameplay right now) would at least make the job more enjoyable for me, as I tend to love support roles in games but ff14 healers are just really boring for me to play.

I think what makes a healer fun would be balancing damage and healing output Spamming the same aoe or single target heal spell wouldn't be fun either and damage will always be apart of healers at the end of the day.

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The issue with adding more dmg spell to healer:
The focus towards dealing dmg will be bigger and will evolve around that.
I rather fight for higher healing requirements ( more to heal up) and more defined roles.
Tank/Heal/DPS should depend on one another.

Tanks are more similar to a dps by design:
Becasue tanks are in their core design a melee DPS w/o positionals,
with defensive tools at the side and "aggro management".

AST have 6 possible dmg abilites at 90, i dont want 1 or 2 more dmg skills in my toolkit.
However i'm up for reworking the ones we have :
Stuff like added effect when used in a spesific sequence!.
(few skills but with depths..and not to complicated/long)

Im all for more options, SE could have created a new healer, that focus towards doing dmg to heal..
But the issue is where to put that in..We're kinda locked into 2 pure healers 2 shield healers..

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

The issue with adding more dmg spell to healer:
The focus towards dealing dmg will be bigger and will evolve around that.

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The each-moment focus on damage-dealing as a healer is already the highest it has ever been, largely due to the glut of "free" healing resources and the simplicity of that damage dealt.

Distributing that focus toward rarer moments arguably lightens that constant burden/focus/optimization-value at least as much as it complicates it.

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Tanks are more similar to a dps by design:
Becasue tanks are in their core design a melee DPS w/o positionals,
with defensive tools at the side and "aggro management".

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Which is entirely incidental, not fundamental. They could as easily have built tanks more around tanking. Just as, by simply not basically paving over healer GCDs with an excess of "free" oGCDs, healers could have remained more like healers. Note that even in that period where relative healing requirements were much higher, though, healers still had greater downtime agency and deeper downtime gameplay available to them than most healers have now.

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Originally Posted by Noumenon

And what does that say about their vision of class design

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A job is not a class. The game has four classes: tank, melee dps, magical dps and healer. A job is a skin over a class.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

A job is not a class. The game has four classes: tank, melee dps, magical dps and healer. A job is a skin over a class.


Cheers

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Ranged physical dps:

https://media.tenor.com/Rcl4uRH7FIkA...snap-emoji.gif

Real answer though: because BLU is not a healer, it's a dps with extra healing actions, which "coincidently" fits more with the game's combat design, but for whatever reason the devs will die on the hill that healers are meant to be healbots.

Cuz doing anything is funner than playing WHM/SCH/SGE/AST.

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

The lack of damage to heal up is indeed there, but i dont see how making healers more into dps would solve/better the issue.
I did not choose to play healer because i enjoyed the dps buttons..I enjoy my healer toolkit(healer skills) and i want to use them.

I mostly do DF/PF and get in groups with new and random ppl, so i stil get to use my heals for now at least...
But when i do get an experienced group the dmg output is close to zero.. and you end up beeing a green dps.

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Itll mostly solve the healers being bored issue, because theyd have more to do than spam 1 skill.

An obvious bandaid fix for sure tho

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

The issue with adding more dmg spell to healer:
The focus towards dealing dmg will be bigger and will evolve around that.

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ARR WHM had 3 dots, 1 nuke, 1 AoE, 1 OGCD
EW WHM has 1 dot, 1 nuke, 1 AoE, Misery and 1 OGCD

Think about that for a second. Think long and hard. Cast your mind back to how healers typically played in ARR….

Now I know you’re going to struggle to comprehend this but I’ll make it as clear as I can for you:

Our DPS kit isn’t what defines the pressure on us to actually deal damage. That’s the oldest scapegoat in the book and frankly it speaks volumes about your understanding of the game if you truely believe that rubbish.

The pressure on our DPS comes from bosses that can routinely go *MINUTES AT A TIME* without dealing any unavoidable raid damage at all.

We are pressured to DPS because by design if we didn’t, we would spend the majority of fights *AT ALL LEVELS* doing quite literally nothing.

Again, I really don’t think you appreciate how much healing requirements are going to need to be raised to actually get us out of our oGCD healing comfort zone.