The Tragedy about Manderville vs Brilliant Relics

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

they have never made a good and engaging relic grind ever.

but i say why not give people who want a grind a grind and make a psuedo grind for players who want it but allow other players to just spend some tomestones for it and move on. that way everyone is happy.

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I found all prior relics engaging in one way or another. Maybe some individual steps could be tweaked. However, the prior relic process, as a whole, has been infinitely better than what we got with EW.

For tomestones... you already have that. Why do players need another tomestone weapon? Or is the Causality weapons now the actual relic, as you actually need to put a modicum of effort into acquiring?

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

Agree completely. At least the crafting/gathering relics feels like an achievement earned.

My only gripe is that, for the DoH ones, if you can complete one component craft you can complete them all, for any given step.

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Yeah, sure. . . "earned". Have the gear, press the macro 60 or so times, collect weapon.

Let's not pretend this is hard.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

I actually really hate the crafting relics. I made one and I lost interest in doing anymore. Decided I'd wait for possible cheese opportunities from future expansion changes. If that never happens then so be it, I'm not all that interested in these relics because the grind pushes me away.

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That's completely fair, though I'd like to ask an honest question:
As someone who was turned off by the grind, do you think it'd do the game better if they simplified the whole quest for people like you?

Genuinly curious to know your answer.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Yeah, sure. . . "earned". Have the gear, press the macro 60 or so times, collect weapon.

Let's not pretend this is hard.

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Well... you're ignoring the whole "Get the Mats" part, as well as the last step (If they stick to what they did with Skybuilders) being a Master Craft that can't be Macro'd. People who Pentameld have a competently different path to the Relic than someone who farms Purple Scrips to grab the 620 Blue Gear, which may need a more fine tuned Macro and a stack of Tsai tou Vounou.

At the same time, Relics have never been about difficulty. This isn't a plea for hard content. "Hardest" the relics ever got was probably Titam HM when it was brand new, and maaaybe Baldesion Arsenal? The plea is about making the journey interesting and meaningful, not tough as nails for the sake of it

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Yeah, sure. . . "earned". Have the gear, press the macro 60 or so times, collect weapon.

Let's not pretend this is hard.

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As DiaDeem said, you still need to acquire the crafting mats.

And you still need to have the gear to do the macro in the first place, which in itself was something that was time and effort required (unless you had the gil to just buy it all, i suppose). I didn't do that. I gathered, crafted and melded every pieced of gathering/crafting gear that I have, that allows me to macro the components to 100%.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

I found all prior relics engaging in one way or another. Maybe some individual steps could be tweaked. However, the prior relic process, as a whole, has been infinitely better than what we got with EW.

For tomestones... you already have that. Why do players need another tomestone weapon? Or is the Causality weapons now the actual relic, as you actually need to put a modicum of effort into acquiring?

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relic is just the title given to a specific group of weapons how you get them doesn't change the weapon.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

As DiaDeem said, you still need to acquire the crafting mats.

And you still need to have the gear to do the macro in the first place, which in itself was something that was time and effort required (unless you had the gil to just buy it all, i suppose). I didn't do that. I gathered, crafted and melded every pieced of gathering/crafting gear that I have, that allows me to macro the components to 100%.

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I have all of the big fish. That is a huge grind, and way more rewarding than hitting a macro a couple hundred times after either a) buying mats off the market board or b) just mindlessly gathering for a couple hours and then spamming macros.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I have all of the big fish. That is a huge grind, and way more rewarding than hitting a macro a couple hundred times after either a) buying mats off the market board or b) just mindlessly gathering for a couple hours and then spamming macros.

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Fishing is crazy, and I respect Fishing Titles a lot. The amount of time and dedication some fish require is insane, and I don't know if I have the courage to ever try for it.

But think about it this way though: Would prefer if it became... "Get 1500 White Gatherer Scrips and buy the Aquomaton from some Gnome in Tomra" instead of doing all the steps of prep and dedication that lil guy needs? Doesn't it feel like the whole thing becomes sorta meaningless if it's simplified so much? That's the spirit of the post in its most basic form.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I have all of the big fish. That is a huge grind, and way more rewarding than hitting a macro a couple hundred times after either a) buying mats off the market board or b) just mindlessly gathering for a couple hours and then spamming macros.

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That's two very different things though? We aren't comparing DoH/DoL relics to big fish hunting or pvp frontline achievements or ultimate clearing. The process to acquire DoH/DoL relics is more involved and has more of a sense of achievement than any manderville step. If you wanna say that the fishing relic should be behind some aspect of big fish hunting, I could maybe get behind that. That would be more relevant, wouldn't it?

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Being rewarded for doing nothing is boring.

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Old relics made you do nothing of note for a long time and were therefore boring. Endwalker relics make you do nothing of note for short time and are therefore less boring. If you wanted to play old relic style content you could just do that. There is nothing stopping you from doing random dungeons, running through areas or doing random fates. The fact that you are currently not doing that and are instead complaing about the game not telling you to do that shows that you dont actually like old relic content.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Well, I mentioned this in another thread, but I thought the very early stages of ARR were interesting. Unique tails, visit different map areas, get a good crafted weapon to be a vessel for the rebuilt Relic...
And yes, a grind by definition is repetitive. I've been crafting a storm up here, but I feel like the activity has meaning.

That said, yeah: Enjoying a grind is an acquired taste, but there's fun to be had in it for some of us.



Same answer as above, though I agree with the second line. I think what most of us want is for the grind to feel meaningful and as part of a journey. The tomestone method is still a grind on itself, but it just doesn't feel engaging, thus why I compared it to the DoH Relics.

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If you just want a checklist to complete literally anyone can make one for you and it will functionally be the same. It's not about showing off, right? I have made someone a checklist to work through, do you want it?

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

https://64.media.tumblr.com/5111e033...fa5qo1_500.gif

So... I'm trying to make a real post about something that can be improved, but I sometimes get the feeling that some of you have never played an actual terrible game.

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If the game weren't in a terribly dead state why are you investing a few hours in photoshopping a ton of pictures so the post looks entertaining when it could easily be done with words in less than 1/5 of the time? Could it be that you have nothing more interesting to do in game than photoshop cute pics?

Hmmmm.

Anyways, game would benefit from some fun midcore content. EW was a huge miss from the devs in regards to post endgame content people would actually find fun to play. Simple as that.