Hypothetical 7.0 Job Changes; PvP Jobs in PvE

I like playing blm in pvp but would hate blm pvp for pve content. Absolute snoozefest.

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

No thanks, PvP jobs, while at least somewhat engaging, have been dumbed down infinitely from ShB.

Imagine having only 6 buttons in PvE ?

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I didn't think people needed to have this spelled out but PSA for basically anyone who thinks this is what we mean with "how about we use PvP jobs as a template for PvE jobs"...

The key suggestion here is using the core mechanics of a PvP job, but not condensed in 6-7 buttons like in PvP but instead EXPANDED to full kits like in PvE. Examples (from various eras of PvP):

HP-Spender + Lifestealer DRK

• Using HP as a resource for offensive / defensive purposes (Dark Arts for example), with limitations on how much you can spend (cooldown, mostly)
• Implement recovery tools, most likely a frequently available lifesteal that will cover your own expenses of effective HP spending per minute + providing probably 10-25% more HP recovery beyond that as leeway / defensive bonus
• "Minus Strike" effect on specific actions hitting harder the lower your HP is (so damage version of Essential Dignity essentially)
• Adjustment on defensives or max HP to make playing this way safer / more viable.
• Maybe make Darkside duration a resource (we are overcapping it by 12min or so every 10min.

Shift RDM

• Using White/Black Shift for a variety of different effects (however, not that either provides 0 DPS and the other provides all)
• Maybe make engaging into a Shift tied to having overcapped Mana of a type
• Implement mono-Mana spenders that can be used if you overcapped a type of mana, increasing the mana gain of the other
• Engagement providing a self-shield because they badly need one

Junction GNB

• Junction: Tank, DPS, Healer available with Draw & Junction, effects activated by using "Continuation" or "Fated Circle" (recommended, other actions can be chosen to be added)
• Junction: Tank provides HP shield effects similar to Brutal Shell (with more potency) or % mitigation (like hold Inner Beast)
• Junction: Healer provides... Healing, can be Regen or direct heal, maybe as a small AOE healing pulse?
• Junction: DPS provides essentially "Greased Lightning" providing 5% haste, up to 3 stacks, for 30s. This is so maintaining 3 stacks is desired, but sitting in Junction: DPS the entire time is not.
• Draw & Junction would be functionally identical to BLU's "Aetherial Mimicry".

Assorted other additions:
White Mage - Seraph Strike, additional offensive capabilities
Scholar - Biolysis spread, once again
Black Mage - maybe a Swiftcast/HP Shield tied to Aetherial Manipulation? Might be slightly overkill if not actually bad though.
Summoner - Fester once again providing additional potency, either by itself under a specific condition or enhancing the potency of another action when used (Ruin spells? Gemshine combos?)

These are some spitball ideas based on how the PvP jobs function, which can be implemented as PvE variants to enhance or rework current job kits.

most controvertial job change. > no new jobs

instead add branching paths and specializations? couild open up for some varying and interesting gameplay.

example > pld > specializations } healer based, dps based ,defensive
these changes could change the weapons pld uses froma shield to a hammer or a magic sword. it could come with its own specialized skills and new 1s to pick from. this game has the infrastructure (did i spell that right?) to make this a thing. new jobs could instead just be new specilizations

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

most controvertial job change. > no new jobs

instead add branching paths and specializations? couild open up for some varying and interesting gameplay.

example > pld > specializations } healer based, dps based ,defensive
these changes could change the weapons pld uses froma shield to a hammer or a magic sword. it could come with its own specialized skills and new 1s to pick from. this game has the infrastructure (did i spell that right?) to make this a thing. new jobs could instead just be new specilizations

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If the specs don't change role, players will gravitate towards the option of most dps because choice is an illusion in this game.

If the specs change the role, it will be akin to designing new jobs sharing weapons, which is both a good and a bad thing. But otherwise it's debatable how good of an addition it would be.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

I didn't think people needed to have this spelled out but PSA for basically anyone who thinks this is what we mean with "how about we use PvP jobs as a template for PvE jobs".

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Your ideas don't work. Let me just explain GNB. What will happen is that you'll just sit in Junction DPS the entire time despite what you say, because the Greased Lightning is 30s yet Draw and Junction is 20s CD.

If they want to make PvE jobs better they need to revamp their entire PvE philosophy, otherwise you never have any reason to Junction anything other than DPS, it really is that simple. In ARR/HW, positioning and crowd control mattered sometimes, now it's just nada. So none of the PvP ideas will work.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

most controvertial job change. > no new jobs

instead add branching paths and specializations? couild open up for some varying and interesting gameplay.

example > pld > specializations } healer based, dps based ,defensive
these changes could change the weapons pld uses froma shield to a hammer or a magic sword. it could come with its own specialized skills and new 1s to pick from. this game has the infrastructure (did i spell that right?) to make this a thing. new jobs could instead just be new specilizations

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Specs are just noob traps, it's impossible to make all of them equally viable and then it becomes a game of "we have a defensive build paladin instead of a dps build paladin, gg, kick him please" in dungeons and raids.
Things like specs, builds, cross class skills like we used to have, those were straight up just noob traps. You either know the correct and meta choice, or you were a noob, pick the wrong choice, and get bitched out by your party for being a hindrance to them.

I love how people are blindly bashing the PvP skillsets for not having 30+ buttons and not having at least 90% of their buttons be damage spells with just a different animation. I'd love to have a "modern" style layout that consolidates buttons at least like they did with Dragoons High Jump-->Mirage Dive (and it doesn't have to be the same button - have 1 separate button be the one transforming like GNB continuation)


Of course copying the current pvp skillsets 1:1 towards PvE wouldn't work we all know that but they could act as a foundation to build more engaging and intricate jobs - like almost all of the pvp skills interact with each other and provide meaning throughout all of the match (looking at you undraw)

But I guess most ppl think getting another button for another ogcd 300 potency skill/heal is super engaging

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

Your ideas don't work. Let me just explain GNB. What will happen is that you'll just sit in Junction DPS the entire time despite what you say, because the Greased Lightning is 30s yet Draw and Junction is 20s CD.

If they want to make PvE jobs better they need to revamp their entire PvE philosophy, otherwise you never have any reason to Junction anything other than DPS, it really is that simple. In ARR/HW, positioning and crowd control mattered sometimes, now it's just nada. So none of the PvP ideas will work.

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You are ONCE AGAIN showing you are shortsighted because you cannot comprehend that they wouldn't implement abilities as carbon copies from one mode to another just like they havent carbon copied PVE abilities to PVP. Do I need to spell out EVERYTHING to you?

Draw & Junction would be a cooldown as short as 2-5s similar to Stances and Kardia. For BLU it's even a GCD.

It would 100% work with a short CD as an oGCD.