Next Demi-Primal?

Hmmm, it might be fun if after Phoenix was cast, Garuda, Titan, and Ifrit were replaced with other Summons until Bahamut was cast. In which cast I'd just love to see the classics: Shiva, Ramuh, and Leviathan. Seeing 8 summons every 2 minutes would be cool ^^

Alexander should be the next one.

Why think small.

Ultima the High Seraph, or Ozma the unlimited.

No, I'm not even close to thinking big enough...

Cosmos!

No...

CHAOS!

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Also, being limited to a side story quest, Alexander would be unlikely to get added as an egi.

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Coil is also a side story and they bent themselves backwards to retcon a reason in for Phoenix to exist. SE hasn't cared about Summoner lore in years anyways, they can just throw whatever in and as long as it looks cool people will go nuts for it for another 4-5 months before realizing what a vapid mess it is once again.

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Originally Posted by Flana

Coil is also a side story and they bent themselves backwards to retcon a reason in for Phoenix to exist. SE hasn't cared about Summoner lore in years anyways, they can just throw whatever in and as long as it looks cool people will go nuts for it for another 4-5 months before realizing what a vapid mess it is once again.

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I mean, if any class should be vapid, SMN is the one that makes sense! In the traditional FF games summoning is generally a one button, high-MP nuke. Nothing particularly big-brain about that! ^^

Joking aside, I personally think the new SMN is genuinely a better designed class. It feels more like a SMN, and it's nice to actually rotate through all your summons rather than only seeing 3 the whole time while doing non-summony busywork like managing DoT's.

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Originally Posted by Flana

Coil is also a side story and they bent themselves backwards to retcon a reason in for Phoenix to exist.

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Depends whether they started from "we're doing this; come up with a reason" or "we can justify this in lore, so let's do it".

Phoenix has a ready-made reason; the same one that they already used to allow summoners to use Dreadwyrm Trance. Alexander is harder to justify because it hasn't been throwing its aether everywhere, but also because its actual powers don't become clear until late in that story arc. Compared to a dragon or phoenix, where you already know what to expect from them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flana

Coil is also a side story and they bent themselves backwards to retcon a reason in for Phoenix to exist. SE hasn't cared about Summoner lore in years anyways, they can just throw whatever in and as long as it looks cool people will go nuts for it for another 4-5 months before realizing what a vapid mess it is once again.

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I agree coils is a side story but it’s probably the single most important side story in the game to the point that if it wasn’t a savage tier raid they would have made it compulsory by now

Coils is just the progression of legacy’s fall of dalamud storyline whos implications run parallel to the 2.0 originated MSQ

I agree that the SMN lore makes no sense for why Phoenix is a demi but I do think a distinction needs to be drawn between coils and Alexander in terms of “are they side content”

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Depends whether they started from "we're doing this; come up with a reason" or "we can justify this in lore, so let's do it".

Phoenix has a ready-made reason; the same one that they already used to allow summoners to use Dreadwyrm Trance. Alexander is harder to justify because it hasn't been throwing its aether everywhere, but also because its actual powers don't become clear until late in that story arc. Compared to a dragon or phoenix, where you already know what to expect from them.

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The major difference is that everyone knows about Bahamut, and thus the workaround makes sense. You can travel to Cartaneu regardless of your coil status and attune to the residual aether their while focusing on Bahamut's attributes in order to complete the ritual. If you didn't do coil, you have no idea Phoenix even exists. There is no way for you to attune to Phoenix's aether specifically, let alone know what attributes and abilities it even had. They literally wrote in you pulling an entire primal out of your butt with no real reasoning to accommodate a lack of coil progress.

And if you did do coil then SE just retconned the WoL into an asshole for both crapping on Luisouix's final wish that no one ever learns about Phoenix as a primal so they aren't tempted to call on it and for parading the corrupted reminder of their closest allies' beloved grandfather to do fat damage.

The whole thing was an awful idea from a story point of view but they did it anyways just for the spectacle.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

Joking aside, I personally think the new SMN is genuinely a better designed class. It feels more like a SMN, and it's nice to actually rotate through all your summons rather than only seeing 3 the whole time while doing non-summony busywork like managing DoT's.

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I disagree, I think the new Summoner is bar none the worst iteration of all from a design point. It is still infested with every problem Demisummoning introduced back in Stormblood, but every shred of complexity has been torn out in a terrible attempt at mitigating those same problems. All flash, zero substance.

If its an elder primal demi egi, like Bahamut and Phoenix, Then I think either Odin, Alexander or Shinryu would be the next demi egi.

For our regular egi, my bet is on at least 2 or 3 of the remaining ARR primals. Likely Ramuh, Leviathan and Shiva. Though, I can see King Moggle Mog being converted into a GCD heal/revive summon.

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Originally Posted by Flana

The major difference is that everyone knows about Bahamut, and thus the workaround makes sense. You can travel to Cartaneu regardless of your coil status and attune to the residual aether their while focusing on Bahamut's attributes in order to complete the ritual. If you didn't do coil, you have no idea Phoenix even exists. There is no way for you to attune to Phoenix's aether specifically, let alone know what attributes and abilities it even had. They literally wrote in you pulling an entire primal out of your butt with no real reasoning to accommodate a lack of coil progress.

And if you did do coil then SE just retconned the WoL into an asshole for both crapping on Luisouix's final wish that no one ever learns about Phoenix as a primal so they aren't tempted to call on it and for parading the corrupted reminder of their closest allies' beloved grandfather to do fat damage.

The whole thing was an awful idea from a story point of view but they did it anyways just for the spectacle.

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I'll give you credit for this.

Personally, a really strong single hit with odin would be likley as a next step.