Next Demi-Primal?

[SweetPete]

Hello fellow eorzeans,

So it's safe to say summoners might be getting a new demi-primal in 7.0. So I want to see which will you all prefer. Alexander or Odin?

I can't wait to see what the majority is.

I, myself would love Odin.

[Carin-Eri]

Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva. Long missing and overdue.

Good King Moogle-Mog would be a fun addition too.

[Supersnow845]

^cant wait to play with more Lego blocks but this time in the new designer colours of blue, light blue and purple

[Iscah]

Why "safe to say"?

Besides the most literal "it's not dangerous to say something might happen", what reason is there to specifically think there's a good chance of getting another?

Also, being limited to a side story quest, Alexander would be unlikely to get added as an egi.

[Flana]

Also, being limited to a side story quest, Alexander would be unlikely to get added as an egi.

Coil is also a side story and they bent themselves backwards to retcon a reason in for Phoenix to exist. SE hasn't cared about Summoner lore in years anyways, they can just throw whatever in and as long as it looks cool people will go nuts for it for another 4-5 months before realizing what a vapid mess it is once again.

[LilimoLimomo]

Coil is also a side story and they bent themselves backwards to retcon a reason in for Phoenix to exist. SE hasn't cared about Summoner lore in years anyways, they can just throw whatever in and as long as it looks cool people will go nuts for it for another 4-5 months before realizing what a vapid mess it is once again.

I mean, if any class should be vapid, SMN is the one that makes sense! In the traditional FF games summoning is generally a one button, high-MP nuke. Nothing particularly big-brain about that! ^^

Joking aside, I personally think the new SMN is genuinely a better designed class. It feels more like a SMN, and it's nice to actually rotate through all your summons rather than only seeing 3 the whole time while doing non-summony busywork like managing DoT's.

[vetch]

I mean, if any class should be vapid, SMN is the one that makes sense! In the traditional FF games summoning is generally a one button, high-MP nuke. Nothing particularly big-brain about that! ^^

Traditional summoners also have long cast times in exchange for their field-clearing nukes. This could have translated into an interesting design with a high skill ceiling where you need to know when it's safe to stop and do a long-cast, high-damage spell and when you need to use an accelerator. Instead we got a 'physranged in a robe' job where you can't slide an index card between the skill ceiling and floor.

Joking aside, I personally think the new SMN is genuinely a better designed class. It feels more like a SMN, and it's nice to actually rotate through all your summons rather than only seeing 3 the whole time while doing non-summony busywork like managing DoT's.

You're still doing non-summon busywork because you're spamming magic missiles for most of your GCDs and gapclosing in to pretend you're a melee for some reason.

[Raikai]

Traditional summoners also have long cast times in exchange for their field-clearing nukes. This could have translated into an interesting design with a high skill ceiling where you need to know when it's safe to stop and do a long-cast, high-damage spell and when you need to use an accelerator. Instead we got a 'physranged in a robe' job where you can't slide an index card between the skill ceiling and floor.



You're still doing non-summon busywork because you're spamming magic missiles for most of your GCDs and gapclosing in to pretend you're a melee for some reason.

I never understood why they gave SMN a needless gap closer. Is not like the job turns into a Clive-Ifrit thing with a full melee phase to justify that, so the addition just seems like an arbitrary attempt to increase to the skill cap.

Other than that, I think the primal actions are actually fine (although they could've made Garuda a bit more distinct) - but the actual primal summoning should've been a 1.45 cast time. It even makes sense that in every FF iteration, the summons are usually casted.

I hope that if we indeed get a new set of primals, to alternate with the ones we have, their playstyle are more centered around cast times.

[Iscah]

Coil is also a side story and they bent themselves backwards to retcon a reason in for Phoenix to exist.

Depends whether they started from "we're doing this; come up with a reason" or "we can justify this in lore, so let's do it".

Phoenix has a ready-made reason; the same one that they already used to allow summoners to use Dreadwyrm Trance. Alexander is harder to justify because it hasn't been throwing its aether everywhere, but also because its actual powers don't become clear until late in that story arc. Compared to a dragon or phoenix, where you already know what to expect from them.

[Flana]

Depends whether they started from "we're doing this; come up with a reason" or "we can justify this in lore, so let's do it".

Phoenix has a ready-made reason; the same one that they already used to allow summoners to use Dreadwyrm Trance. Alexander is harder to justify because it hasn't been throwing its aether everywhere, but also because its actual powers don't become clear until late in that story arc. Compared to a dragon or phoenix, where you already know what to expect from them.

The major difference is that everyone knows about Bahamut, and thus the workaround makes sense. You can travel to Cartaneu regardless of your coil status and attune to the residual aether their while focusing on Bahamut's attributes in order to complete the ritual. If you didn't do coil, you have no idea Phoenix even exists. There is no way for you to attune to Phoenix's aether specifically, let alone know what attributes and abilities it even had. They literally wrote in you pulling an entire primal out of your butt with no real reasoning to accommodate a lack of coil progress.

And if you did do coil then SE just retconned the WoL into an asshole for both crapping on Luisouix's final wish that no one ever learns about Phoenix as a primal so they aren't tempted to call on it and for parading the corrupted reminder of their closest allies' beloved grandfather to do fat damage.

The whole thing was an awful idea from a story point of view but they did it anyways just for the spectacle.

Joking aside, I personally think the new SMN is genuinely a better designed class. It feels more like a SMN, and it's nice to actually rotate through all your summons rather than only seeing 3 the whole time while doing non-summony busywork like managing DoT's.

I disagree, I think the new Summoner is bar none the worst iteration of all from a design point. It is still infested with every problem Demisummoning introduced back in Stormblood, but every shred of complexity has been torn out in a terrible attempt at mitigating those same problems. All flash, zero substance.