Every dungeon should be a Variant Dungeon

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I get it, it's neat and different.



The problem is after the first few times the novelty wears off. Then people will want to go the fastest route. No more variation.

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I think so, but you need to read the whole post in order to understand how the issue you brought up would be handled.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I think so, but you need to read the whole post in order to understand how the issue you brought up would be handled.

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It then it's just different dungeons and not the same either.



For variant to work it'd have to be the whole system or it's just not the same. Randomly deciding a path is what we currently have.

Even if novelty wears off after some point, I'd still welcome this change any day.
Running the same routes over and over for months, is not fun. Even less when you've visited the dungeon a 286th time between patch cycles.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It then it's just different dungeons and not the same either.



For variant to work it'd have to be the whole system or it's just not the same. Randomly deciding a path is what we currently have.

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Perhaps you are looking at this differently than what is envisioned. Right now, variant dungeons have several routes you can pick and several variables that can happen. The difference is that the choice of the set of variables is done by the players, unfortunately, surely there is a most efficient path that will become standard because try hards like to min max.

So alternatively, you keep the variant dungeon design, with its paths and variables, but when you load into the instance the server, not the player, determines what variables are going to apply on that specific instance. Therefore, the dungeon offers several different experiences to the player when they revisit it via roulette or direct queue, and is more enjoyable.

To me, given the design being the same, with the only difference being who decides what variables get chosen, it is comparative enough to consider it an evolution of the same thing. However, that is getting bogged down in the details.

The important question is. Would you find variations of the dungeons you run enjoyable? There is no right or wrong answer here, just a feeling to the feedback in question.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

https://i.imgur.com/wfg6nR6.jpg

This dungeon experience is vastly superior to what we have for story progression now.

I enjoy the format, details, and variability of Variants. I also particularly enjoy Mt Rokkon both in setting and design. However, I can't help but think that this sort of design should be the standard and not feature content. The only change that needs to be made to the format if this is adopted is that the route is randomly preselected for you in order to avoid min-maxers ruining the experience by finding the optimal route.

This way, when you queue for a dungeon or a roulette you are not stuck replaying the exact same sequence of events over and over ad nauseam. Instead you wonder what route you are going to get, or if you are going to see something you've never seen before.

As such, it makes a great dungeon for roulettes, but due to the terrible reward structure for these instances it makes poor feature content. The current set up to enter these instances could be retained for the Extreme difficulty and savage version albeit consolidated since there would be many more.

I would like to hear if anyone wouldn't find this enriching and why or if they do, since generally agreed upon topics tend to get noticed.

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I give a counter argument.

How about if most dungeons are fixed path, but you can unlock a V&C of them to be able to explore around in them?

This gives the option of making both the regular, and hard mode of old dungeons into a single V&C that expands to let us explore way more of that region.

Figure we wouldn't get more then one or two dungeons expanded this way per year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Perhaps you are looking at this differently than what is envisioned. Right now, variant dungeons have several routes you can pick and several variables that can happen. The difference is that the choice of the set of variables is done by the players, unfortunately, surely there is a most efficient path that will become standard because try hards like to min max.

So alternatively, you keep the variant dungeon design, with its paths and variables, but when you load into the instance the server, not the player, determines what variables are going to apply on that specific instance. Therefore, the dungeon offers several different experiences to the player when they revisit it via roulette or direct queue, and is more enjoyable.

To me, given the design being the same, with the only difference being who decides what variables get chosen, it is comparative enough to consider it an evolution of the same thing. However, that is getting bogged down in the details.

The important question is. Would you find variations of the dungeons you run enjoyable? There is no right or wrong answer here, just a feeling to the feedback in question.

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I guess my point is that is kind of what we have already. In a sense, every dungeon is just a variation of another with a new coat of paint. That's what I was getting at, and why I don't see the server randomly choosing a path as anything really new.

I like the idea on paper about every dungeon being a variant dungeon but like a few have discussed novelty does wear off. Personally I think they should have it be auto-generated dungeons where when you go in no dungeon is the same as before similar to deep dungeons and maybe put chances for events like they do treasure maps but that might be too much coding for this wee little game. All in all - the same formula they use being 3 bosses with trash pulls in between is stale, players should not be able to predict every little thing everytime. A change needs to be made regardless.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

I give a counter argument.

How about if most dungeons are fixed path, but you can unlock a V&C of them to be able to explore around in them?

This gives the option of making both the regular, and hard mode of old dungeons into a single V&C that expands to let us explore way more of that region.

Figure we wouldn't get more then one or two dungeons expanded this way per year.

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I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to this the only pause it gives me is the population factor. Since roulettes are probably the most run content on this game by far the devs would get more return for their work by integrating into it. But I would still be down for this opt in approach.

This is the bare minimum they could do for Ala Mhigo TBH xD. But I'd rather that city turn into a real place.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I guess my point is that is kind of what we have already. In a sense, every dungeon is just a variation of another with a new coat of paint. That's what I was getting at, and why I don't see the server randomly choosing a path as anything really new.

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I see what you mean now. If you don't acknowledge you are at a different locale every time you load into a dungeon then yes, you are correct. Every dungeon is the same dungeon with a different variation. So from this POV I would be advocating for variations of the same skin/locale per dungeon instance. Thereby exponentially increasing variety per roulette.

And for sure, this is not the newest of concepts, but it would be more interesting than what we have currently. IMO.

It's really an interesting idea, unfortunately they won't do it because their dungeon designs will always remain minimalist,
a straight line 3 bosses and some chests which do not give really interesting loot and which often contain recolored glam from old content.


before yet we had the rediscovery of a brutal version of a dungeon with a totally different way/visuels and bosses,
now it's only one dungeon per patch which makes expert roulette quickly redundant because we've been playing the same 2 dungeons for months and months.

seeing how much content we've lost since stormblood,
the devs would never make such elaborate content without making huge sacrifices elsewhere in the pve content,
while pve content has never been so poor on an expansion as endwalker.

They never bothered to take risks for change, the only risks they took was to decrease the content.