Every dungeon should be a Variant Dungeon

[Ath192]

This dungeon experience is vastly superior to what we have for story progression now.

I enjoy the format, details, and variability of Variants. I also particularly enjoy Mt Rokkon both in setting and design. However, I can't help but think that this sort of design should be the standard and not feature content. The only change that needs to be made to the format if this is adopted is that the route is randomly preselected for you in order to avoid min-maxers ruining the experience by finding the optimal route.

This way, when you queue for a dungeon or a roulette you are not stuck replaying the exact same sequence of events over and over ad nauseam. Instead you wonder what route you are going to get, or if you are going to see something you've never seen before.

As such, it makes a great dungeon for roulettes, but due to the terrible reward structure for these instances it makes poor feature content. The current set up to enter these instances could be retained for the Extreme difficulty and savage version albeit consolidated since there would be many more.

I would like to hear if anyone wouldn't find this enriching and why or if they do, since generally agreed upon topics tend to get noticed.

[LinaAkayomi]

Considering a run of a Variant is similar in lenght to a "Normal" dungeon, I really doubt this can be done.
Variants sound like 3x the work than a regular dungeon. What you ask is impossible. Would it be cool? Yeah. I wish we had at least a daily roulette for Variant dungeons (or for BLU dungeons, but that's another thing entirely...).

In short, cool idea, will never ever happen.

[Rufalus]

Yes something like that. When an expansion drops I don't always want to be doing 8 normal dungeons and 3 trials. These kinds of things can be peppered into the msq progression.

[Cach]

This is something I thought of right after playing the first variant.

I don't run 4-man dungeons anymore, but adding the "randomizer" element might be what it needs to keep the experience fresh on the long-term.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Honestly so much this. The puzzle element and general rogue-lite concept for variant would make roulette dungeon runs so much interesting since it encourages a bit of exploration and communication for players wanting to get different bosses, especially if every boss and route has unique items to collect

[Ath192]

Considering a run of a Variant is similar in lenght to a "Normal" dungeon, I really doubt this can be done.
Variants sound like 3x the work than a regular dungeon. What you ask is impossible. Would it be cool? Yeah. I wish we had at least a daily roulette for Variant dungeons (or for BLU dungeons, but that's another thing entirely...).

In short, cool idea, will never ever happen.

I appreciate you thinking it's a cool idea. The reason I remain optimistic about this particular concept is that its perhaps that it is quite possible to implement. We used to get 3 expert dungeons and they cut one, we used to wait less per patch, so perhaps its not so unreasonable to ask for a bit more effort in the dungeons we do get, that add a ton of replayability to them and are a source of joy instead of feeling like a chore.

And more importantly than anything, they have proven it can be done, since they exist already. So if the question is "Would players enjoy the game more if this dungeon design gets implemented as standard?" and the answer is "yes" then perhaps the devs would consider it. Thinking of several routes and choices for the same group of assets is more work, but it's not an absurd amount of work either as creating brand new assets and everything for one extra dungeon, that used to be made.

Perhaps you are right, and they won't bother. but imo they can, and they should, to make their product better.

[DiaDeem]

This sounds good on paper, and I wanna say I'd be on board with it, but exploratory content in regular dungeons has never worked well in this game. They used to make regular dungeons like this, but people just pick one route and went with it.

When was the last time you visited the side rooms in Toto-Rak? When was the last time you went for the minion before the first boss in Amdapor Keep? When was the last time you freed the maidens in Sastasha? When was the last time you saw the pirates break into a fight in that one side room? When was the last time you visited all the side rooms in Qarn using all the stones? When was the last time you opened the secret room at the end of the dungeon? When was the last time you opened the side rooms in Haukke Manor? Toto-Rak used to have different routes, but every just tried to rush through it ASAP. People usually just don't care.

I think story dungeons are fine as they are, but I think that not only should we start having at least one Variant Dungeon every patch, but that Hard Mode dungeons should make a come back as well. And they should make them the content you run to get purple armor you upgrade every patch, instead of throwing away your Blue gear every patch.

[Ath192]

This sounds good on paper, and I wanna say I'd be on board with it, but exploratory content in regular dungeons has never worked well in this game. When was the last time you freed the maidens in Sastasha? When was the last time you saw the pirates break into a fight in that one side room? When was the last time you visited all the side rooms in Qarn using all the stones? When was the last time you opened the secret room at the end of the dungeon? When was the last time you opened the side rooms in Haukke Manor? Toto-Rak used to have different routes, but every just tried to rush through it ASAP. People usually just don't care. I think story dungeons are fine as they are, but I think that not only should we start having at least one Variant Dungeon every patch, but that Hard Mode dungeons should make a come back as well. And they should make them the content you run to get purple armor you upgrade every patch, instead of throwing away your Blue gear every patch.

I will counter with one key difference between Variants and the scenarios you mentioned. Choices and variety in Variants cause progression, whereas the examples you quoted do not, are easily ignored, and can be bulldozed through. You would free the maidens in Sastasha if you had to in order to progress, in an alternative version of the dungeon the room is vacant and you need to trigger the fight in the side room by some clever way in order to move forward.

As such, by creating variables that cannot be ignored the experience stays fresher for much longer than static routes.

[Syln]

Agree 100%, and i hope they come up with even more idea to spice it up like the possibility to do it with 1 to 3 party at the same time, each of them getting a random path and racing to the last boss with added trap/hazard that you can unlock through side objective to cripple other party progression etc ...

Or less define path, that allow you to start at A then switch to B through a jumping puzzle/side objective/special action during a boss fight, there is so much possibilities it's frustrating to see such a great concept being so limited right now.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I get it, it's neat and different.



The problem is after the first few times the novelty wears off. Then people will want to go the fastest route. No more variation.