Shoha II is stupid...

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Originally Posted by Deo14

Just so it doesn't look like I'm making stuff up, I found source, it's on page 364: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...42-侍スレ/page364

Here's some botched translations of those 2 comments I was speaking about.
This has 36 upvotes. Few comments later, there is this...
...with 1 upvote. But to be fair, there seems to be others saying that circle is okay (or at least it looks like it, translation is botched as usual), some getting good amount of upvotes.

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Good find, mhm.

Shoha II is a good example of Square feeling they had to add something to go with the new Expansion release that is utterly unnecessary... as it did not improve the Job's gameplay. Merge Shoha I and II with fall off damage ( as mentioned endless times... ) This can be done as well for Guren and Senei, with the introduction of gigantic mobs... have the AoE radiuses increased to accommodate. If I had it my way? Tenka Goken would also be a Conal AoE with Hissatsu: Kaiten reintroduced. The game rewards you now for thinking vs being thoughtless and positioning yourself properly for more damage output. What we do currently in comparison is utterly abysmal gameplay, I'm standing in AoE's ignoring it's damage to hit all the mobs standing dead center. That's it.

Square needs to stop changing Jobs towards room temperature IQ gameplay, do not balance the game around having Arthritis... and quit catering towards Geriatric 60 year old players... ( I don't know if this is a thing I'm just trying to make a point here... ) Listen! Keep Jobs interesting and Fun? and all PvE combat content becomes more Fun. Literally I have turned from Raider? to now a Gposer / Housing Decorator. Call me crazy but in SHB I had no desire to make a Fat-Cat Gpose as I do in EW. And while I love it... I used to love Samurai gameplay astronomically more when we had some ounce a slither of something more then what it is now, mhm.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

"Improved" MCH. In the same way they "fixed" SMN. In the same way they'll probably eventually "improve" all jobs.

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I think they meant post 6.0 with Hypercharge being based on stacks, Automaton Queen targeting your target.
Of course there's a lot of remaining improvements and interesting feedback being unanswered but I also believe they started listening more closely to the community after 6.2.

Now if we're talking about 5.0 MCH rework... Yes that was a design disaster that aged like milk. They solved a lot of problems but also brought a lot more.
And SQEX started to mention button bloat on MCH, among the jobs with the least buttons to press.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

I think they meant post 6.0 with Hypercharge being based on stacks, Automaton Queen targeting your target.
Of course there's a lot of remaining improvements and interesting feedback being unanswered but I also believe they started listening more closely to the community after 6.2.

Now if we're talking about 5.0 MCH rework... Yes that was a design disaster that aged like milk. They solved a lot of problems but also brought a lot more.
And SQEX started to mention button bloat on MCH, among the jobs with the least buttons to press.

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I'll never recover from how they destroyed one of my favorite jobs in StB. Though I acknowledge I was one of the few who preferred the StB iteration of MCH.

Though yeah hypercharge stacks and pets acting as they should are nice fixes I'll admit.

Shoha I : Single Target
Shoha II : AoE

it always has been that way, remember Senei? Which got added in Shadowbringers even though we already had Guren? Simple:

Senei: Single Target
Guren: AoE

and let me tell ya, prepare for Ogi to get the same treatment.
But what's more important is to be able to boost Ogi (and all other Weaponskills) with Kaiten.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

I don't get why this is so hard to Understand
Shoha I : Single Target
Shoha II : AoE

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I feel like you missed the point?

Here's an example:
What if Shoha II was instead an upgrade that dealt damage to the selected target and AoE damage to the other targets around.
Guren worked this way before Sen'ei and no one asked for a single target variant.

We would effectively have both the ST and AoE on a single button and solve the "button bloat issue" SQEX keeps creating and complaning about.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

POTD encourages killing ennemies one by one.

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You really don't do deep dungeons, huh.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

You really don't do deep dungeons, huh.

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I do and since you did as well you should be aware that past a certain floor, you don't want to mix monsters in Eureka Orthors.
It's true that in POTD and HOH you can stack monsters since they don't have mechanics but Shoha II isn't available.

Sorry for putting "POTD", just a bad habit.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Here's an example:
What if Shoha II was instead an upgrade that dealt damage to the selected target and AoE damage to the other targets around.
Guren worked this way before Sen'ei and no one asked for a single target variant.

We would effectively have both the ST and AoE on a single button and solve the "button bloat issue" SQEX keeps creating and complaning about.

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You mean like they did with Spirits Within -> Expiacion? Yeah I get that. I dunno why they'd put 2 spells that work off of the exact same resource 2 levels apart and just make them a ST/AoE split.

Maybe give Shoha earlier on and make Shoha 2 an upgrade that's just "and X% less for all remaining enemies"? What is it, 560 and 200 pot? So Shoha: 560 -> Shoha 2: 560 and 65% less...
If SAM wasn't so bloated for buttons, id just say give them a bigger gap between getting them, but well. SAM. Y'know.

I would say that WAR and Orogeny is the same issue and could use the same treatment, but WAR ain't a job suffering from button bloat, so they get a pass.

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Originally Posted by Experiment_X4d2

You mean like they did with Spirits Within -> Expiacion? Yeah I get that. I dunno why they'd put 2 spells that work off of the exact same resource 2 levels apart and just make them a ST/AoE split.

Maybe give Shoha earlier on and make Shoha 2 an upgrade that's just "and X% less for all remaining enemies"? What is it, 560 and 200 pot? So Shoha: 560 -> Shoha 2: 560 and 65% less...
If SAM wasn't so bloated for buttons, id just say give them a bigger gap between getting them, but well. SAM. Y'know.

I would say that WAR and Orogeny is the same issue and could use the same treatment, but WAR ain't a job suffering from button bloat, so they get a pass.

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They could (and probably should) just fuse all the ST/AoE abilities that share the same resource/CD, it'd do wonders for button bloat, which they seem so worried about.

Though, they also seem hell-bent on reintroducing abilities they removed or incorporated into other abilities before. Like with how Dragoons Disembowel gives you a damage buff but before that it was a separate skill, and then reaper comes along with Shadow of Death and Whirl of Death, TWO abilities that do the exact same thing, except one is ST and the other is AoE, and it's basically the same ability that they got rid of/merged with Dragoon.

Sometimes the inconsistency in their design choices is what gets me the most...

Shoha II is a bad name. It's not what it's called in Japanese.