What's with Paladin?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

Paladin had too much button bloat, so you went back to... Dark Knight??

---

Dark Knight isn't that bad, as the system is simplier and the abilities are much more clear on what they're doing and how to set them up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

Dark Knight isn't that bad, as the system is simplier and the abilities are much more clear on what they're doing and how to set them up.

---

PLD is just 1-2-3 and you get 1 stack Divine Might which you use for Holy Spirit and 3 stacks of Atonement. Then you have burst phase with FoF that you always use with Req, when you have Req, you just use your Faith combo. You use Goring in burst, use Intervene, Scorn and Explacion on CD, then you also want to drop 1-2 Atonement to properly realign. That's everything regarding rotation. It's like 2-3 steps away from just spamming 1-2-3, it's really simple if you spend 5-10 minutes reading tooltips/checking opener.

This simple imagine explains like 90% of PLD.
https://i.imgur.com/1XeKU4Y.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bsrking5

Is cover even worth it anymore?

---

its situational thing, good if your healer needs to raise other healers in an alliance to prevent a wipe since you take the interrupt or dmg.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

Dark Knight isn't that bad, as the system is simplier and the abilities are much more clear on what they're doing and how to set them up.

---

Everyone approaches things from their own perspective, so I'm not trying to tell you your viewpoint is "wrong", just that I personally find it perplexing — I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who had the opinion that DRK was simpler and more intuitive than PLD.


Dark Knight:

• Has more situational defensives that have more potential failure states
• Has 3 different gauges to manage (1 of which is nearly completely pointless, but is still one more thing to keep track of before unloading your burst)
• Requires funky line positioning to use its AOE MP dump
• Has vaguely-convoluted burst tools that can be done "wrong" (becoming trapped into overcapping / wasting resources)
• Has a cacophony of redundant damage OGCDs that don't really do anything very unique, all bloating out its jam-packed burst windows and competing for weave-space
• Requires some minor amount of planning and set-up to achieve its full burst potential
• Has a semi-convoluted fake pet that's a fat chunk of your output, needs resources, and can have its uptime wasted if timed poorly
• Has a Tank Invuln that still manages to confuse healers and potentially accomplish nothing
• Cannot dig itself out of HP deficits past a certain point
• Easily becomes a healer headache if you overzealously spend MP or become too distracted while trying to xylophone out all your burst damage
• Has to facepull bosses if it wants to fit all of its service dog inside party buff windows

In contrast, Paladin is pretty damn chill:

• Doesn't even have an offensive gauge to monitor.
• Half your "utility" is clumsy and borderline-useless, and can just be ignored in most casual situations (Passage, Cover, Intervention, Clemency).
• Your only "procs" come after a single predictable trigger in both ST and AOE (Royal Authority / Prominence).
• You have exactly 2 damaging OGCDs to use, which have no resource cost, no deeper considerations or interactions, and can just be smashed the moment they dare to light up.
• You have some dash charges to blow if you have nowhere you need to go anytime soon (which is the same as every Tank).
• You don't have to think much about when or where to use your personal defensives, because they all work the same on basically everything.
• Your offensive "burst" does not require any subtlety at all (glue Req and FOF together, don't blow Req stacks on something unfortunate, spam Confiteor button until Req runs out).
• You can't even really "mess up" Paladin's burst unless you try, because all of the potencies are so close together that it barely matters what you slap to finish out FOF, as long as you don't somehow forget to press Goring Blade.
• Likewise, you can't really "flub" Paladin's rotation or "set up"; the worst thing you can do is use another RA / Prom while you still have Atonement or Divine Might stacks, but... er... just... don't do that.

To me, DRK just seems to be objectively more work, thinking, and keypresses than current PLD, especially during set-up and execution of burst cycles.

But even during "filler" periods, they're basically the same thing:

Spam 1-2-3 (Souleater / Royal Authority combo)
Sometimes press 4 (Bloodspiller / Holy Spirit)

Paladin adds "5", Atonement, but that's basically just 1-2-3 in disguise.

I guess DRK only has to remember to press its OGCDs every 60s, rather than every 30s? But, I have to admit, I've never really thought of "don't forget to press Expi / Scorn when they light up" as a potentially-burdensome aspect of PLD.

Think its also notable for DRK is that Blood Weapon and Delirium are never used apart, and ultimately just give you another button to press.

Not sure If I'd want them rolled into one skill or make one more unique from the other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deo14

PLD is just 1-2-3 and you get 1 stack Divine Might which you use for Holy Spirit and 3 stacks of Atonement. Then you have burst phase with FoF that you always use with Req, when you have Req, you just use your Faith combo. You use Goring in burst, use Intervene, Scorn and Explacion on CD, then you also want to drop 1-2 Atonement to properly realign. That's everything regarding rotation. It's like 2-3 steps away from just spamming 1-2-3, it's really simple if you spend 5-10 minutes reading tooltips/checking opener.

This simple imagine explains like 90% of PLD.
https://i.imgur.com/1XeKU4Y.png

---

Dark Knight is feels more straight forward than that.

That sounds like a real pain compared to Warrior and Dark Knight while lacking flexibility.

Don't insult my intelligence. I didn't attack you, so why are you attacking me? Now I'm less inclined to believe anything you said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oizen

Think its also notable for DRK is that Blood Weapon and Delirium are never used apart, and ultimately just give you another button to press.

Not sure If I'd want them rolled into one skill or make one more unique from the other.

---

Considering that they currently are used apart, at least in your opener and your 1-minute window, I would not want them to be a single button. Could this be fixed? Probably, but with how the job currently plays it would be an awful change.

Sweet mercy if people think PLD has button bloat this game is done for lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reimmi

Sweet mercy if people think PLD has button bloat this game is done for lol

---

I wonder if anyone thinks Summoner and Machinist have button bloat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

Dark Knight is feels more straight forward than that.

That sounds like a real pain compared to Warrior and Dark Knight while lacking flexibility.

Don't insult my intelligence. I didn't attack you, so why are you attacking me? Now I'm less inclined to believe anything you said.

---

I don't see why do you think I'm attacking your intelligence. Why would I even do that, it seems that you're capable of doing that yourself. But go ahead and don't believe in my explanation of PLD, which even includes mathematically optimal opener. You can believe whatever you want, you can even believe in such a hilarious things like that PLD has more bloat than DRK. You do you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reimmi

Sweet mercy if people think PLD has button bloat this game is done for lol

---

Some people even think that NIN has button bloat, others believe that Kaiten was removed for button bloat or similar BS, while some seem to lead some sort of crusade to consolidate every barely related button together, without caring whether it makes any logical sense or not, for example turning Aeolian Edge into Raiju, or my favorite, consolidating Bhavacakra with Bunshin. Don't ask me why, or how would you track CD of Bunshin. Some guy even came with his own bullshit phrase "button inflation" because he's too lazy to learn how to use 3rd/4th cross hotbar.

Button bloat has lost all of it's original meaning, just like every new internet phrase does in a week.