How much difference in damage should the tanks have?

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

0% to none, preferably.

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Issue with doing that and nothing else is that in an environment where every tank does the same ammount of damage, then the Tanks who have additional utility will always be meta and the ones that don't will be left in the dust. DRK and GNB don't get to function as 3rd healers like WAR, so if WAR is hitting as hard as them, why bring DRK or GNB?

In which we'd be forced to make them all have the same defenses too, in which we'd get even closer to having exactly 1 tank class with 4 different cosmetic options

The balance of this game is actually REALLY bad and has been for a while, its just that the majority of content is so easy that no one notices.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

In which we'd be forced to make them all have the same defenses too, in which we'd get even closer to having exactly 1 tank class with 4 different cosmetic options.

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It already happened. That's what tank mastery trait did and turned all tank stances into a one button set and forget it. Enmity is such a joke that I wouldn't be surprised if tank stances were just baked into the job and instead they introduce OT stances back since they are so adamant on turning every tank into a pseudo dps. They've literally jumped the shark when it comes to tank homogenization.

Imo 1-2% should be the minimum though if you play a job that cannot clear savage content week 1 because you lack gear then there is something wrong with the balancing. Though I already knew that for years ever since 4.1 destroyed WAR.

The real issue is how the 2 min timer windows destroyed gcd focused jobs. Every job must now dump all their damage in 15-20 secs and if you have a job that's mostly ogcds vs a job that's only gcds guess what will happen? It also doesn't help that FC and EoS are the same potency. Think about that. WAR has to spend a gcd for FC and a combo to get 10% while DRK can double weave EoS in between a gcd and get its dmg buff asap. 1 sec recast > 2.5 sec recast and that is a fact.

I'm also not a fan of this rng dmg that started with WAR's IR that spread to other jobs. I'm not sure why they think hitting the same button only to get wildly varying dmg is fun. I can tell you personally as someone who stuck with WAR through thick and thin that seeing bigger numbers but not actually bigger damage is jarring. It's also not fun knowing that my performance is based on a dice roll. Anyone who has crit their biggest hitting button vs not crit knows what I mean.

Ultimately this won't affect 99% of the playerbase but the fact that it happened in 2022 where you bring your favorite job that you love to play to raid and are then told that you cannot play that job because we won't be able to clear means that we haven't progressed much from HW gordias.

less than 3.14%

If all tank defensives are supposed to be the same, why doesn't DRK have large amounts of self-healing? This seems like an oversight then and SE should be giving DRK a self-sustain ability regardless. Sure you can mitigate large amounts of damage, but it isn't the same.

Personally I'd rather have defensives be different than all the DPS numbers being the same.

Call it homogenization if you want. Fact is, this game's raiding community only cares about damage output. Any tank that lags behind will essentially be the redheaded step child, regardless of what other helpful tricks it brings to the table. Either put them in a state of parity or don't bother.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Call it homogenization if you want. Fact is, this game's raiding community only cares about damage output. Any tank that lags behind will essentially be the redheaded step child, regardless of what other helpful tricks it brings to the table. Either put them in a state of parity or don't bother.

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This is because there's literally nothing else to care about. Who cares that Warrior has all this self-healing when it never factors into the fight design as everything is tuned to accommodate every possible tank comp? At least in theory. Warrior offers nothing Dark Knight simply doesn't do better at the Savage level. Sure, Warrior can heal but Dark Knight just takes less damage because it'll always have a bazillion CDs ready for busters. Holmgang is amazing... but not in a raid tier where all invulns took an indirect nerf.

The same exists for healers. White Mage is supposed to be the "raw healer" in a game where every healers must be capable of clearing content. Therefore, those massive "raw heals" will never have value.

If the devs want us to care about something beyond damage. They need to stop making it the only thing that matters.

0-1% honestly.

It literally does not matter what tank pair u got u can pass all the mit checks one way or the other. Utility is kind of irrelevant since all tanks have reprisal a 2nd party mit and enough CDs to live what they need to.

So in all honesty, all jobs should do the same dmg. Numbers dont matter, the jobs play differently and that is where diversity comes in.

U should not need to be punished because u dont want carpal tunnel, or u just prefer to play a different job.

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Originally Posted by Mithron

So you like homogenization? Not accusing, just seeking opinions.

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homogenization of performance is great because nobody wants to play a job that deals half the damage of the others, and nobody wants to play a tank that can't survive the incoming damage of a fight

homogenization of playstyle is the problem, because the whole point of having different jobs is so people that enjoy different things can have options that suit their taste

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Originally Posted by Marxam

The real issue is how the 2 min timer windows destroyed gcd focused jobs. Every job must now dump all their damage in 15-20 secs and if you have a job that's mostly ogcds vs a job that's only gcds guess what will happen? It also doesn't help that FC and EoS are the same potency. Think about that. WAR has to spend a gcd for FC and a combo to get 10% while DRK can double weave EoS in between a gcd and get its dmg buff asap. 1 sec recast > 2.5 sec recast and that is a fact.

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that's not a problem with 2-min meta. if fell cleave had 5000 potency, war would easily outdps dark knight. the reason why war's DPS is low is simply because the devs want it to be. after all, they have the ability to increase potency by as much as they want, whenever they want, and choose not to.

same goes for paladin. if the devs wanted to, they could make it deal more DPS than a SAM without changing a single thing about their rotation.

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

homogenization of performance is great because nobody wants to play a job that deals half the damage of the others, and nobody wants to play a tank that can't survive the incoming damage of a fight

homogenization of playstyle is the problem, because the whole point of having different jobs is so people that enjoy different things can have options that suit their taste

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I'd likely disagree, I think with tanks and Healers you should generally have meaningful differences in their kit, obviously some basic fundamentals that all those jobs share, but at the same time it's good when different Jobs excel in different areas, but are still all viable enough in every content.

I personally don't mind IF PLD performs slightly worse by lets say 1% damage, if it has good survivability and defensives in general good utility and support. I think it's fine to have small damage and utility differences in general it's healthier for the game. I feel like currently PLD is bad in both areas of defensives and damage output.

Realistically as long as jobs have different rotations theirs always going to be slight performance differences in damage terms, I again don't think that's a issue as long as all jobs stay viable.